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warrenweelim
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Post subject: Dealing with the Bulls
 Posted: Nov 08, 2007 - 10:17 AM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 2839
  
votes: 31
Status: Offline
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This will not be another Kobe to the Bulls thread.
Instead, I am offering something of uncanny nature - something we did not think was.
WHAT IF: The Bulls and Lakers are talking about a BEN WALLACE to LA deal? Ben Wallace has struggled in CHI town since day one. A year after they thought he'd bring them to the next level, they are at ground zero. And now, they are 0-4 with the Pistons coming up on Friday. Ben's hustle and toughness is somehow negated by Skiles' unwillingness to explore his strengths. Yes, he is 33. But there are intangibles involved here.
The Lakers need defense, shot-blocking, steals. Why not Big Ben? Kobe will appreciate it, and Big Ben can boost his bid for a 5th DPOY award in LA. He shall provide for defense, shot-blocking and steals, and his efforts will be greatly rewarded when Kobe shoots those bullet passes that Ben finishes so well. Free Throws will always be a problem. Well we survived with Shaq didn't we? and how better is Kwame on this department?
Here is my proposal:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &cash=
Chicago gets:
Kwame Brown - defensive center with good post defense. Younger by 8 years, cheaper by 30M. They should be able to re-sign him next year for 3-4M.
Brian Cook - the Bulls are somewhat deficient on size. Since the Bulls love to shoot from the outside, why not a BIG man who does nothing else but shoot?
Sasha Vujacic - well Sasha is a filler. The Bulls can choose to waive him since they gain an extra body on this deal. If they so choose, he could be another ball handler to relieve captain Kirk.
Javaris Crittenton - will be the hardest one to part. I understand the sentiments of young Laker fans, but without adding this guy, there will be no deal. Understand that the Bulls only have Duhon next to Hinrich, and Sefolosha next to Gordon. With the way negotiations are going with Deng and Gordon, there is a good chance Deng is locked up long term and Gordon is signed-and-traded elsewhere. Critt will be the insurance. They can have a pretty young and solid team next year that un-made their mistakes.
LA gets:
Ben Wallace - defense, defense, defense. There's plenty of offense to go around and we need that clog in the middle that Kwame does so well.
Adrian Griffin - is a veteran who we could use at the 2 or 3. Well it doesn't matter. I'd trade Cook and Sasha for almost anyone...
Aaron Gray - may or may not be included depending on the Bulls. If they like this 2nd rounder so much they can keep him too. We could take a future 2nd instead since we are swamped with centers already...
Trade Value:
The value of the trade is fair. Bulls benefit from this deal in terms of salary dumping and getting a little defense and some size back. They also get a good prospect in Critt, all for the services of an overpaid 33-yr old center who has not produced for them.
LA meanwhile, could appreciate sending 3 slugs to the Bulls for some defensive clog who zeroes-in on opponents. A little overpaid but his decreasing salary scheme helps a bit, and his defense a lot.
Salaries:
Ben Wallace - 44M / 3 yrs
Adrian Griffin - 3.2M / 2 yrs
Aaron Gray - 1.2M / 2 yrs
total: 48.4M
Kwame Brown - 9.1M / 1 yr
Brian Cook - 10.5M / 3 yrs
Sasha Vujacic - 1.8M / 1 yr
Javaris Crittenton - 6.5M / 4 yrs
total: 27.9M
rosters:
Hinrich / Duhon / Crittenton
Gordon / Sefolosha / Curry
Deng / Nocioni / Khryapa
Smith / Noah / Cook
Kwame / Thomas / Gray
Fisher / Farmar / Karl
Kobe / Evans / Griffin
Odom / Walton /
Turiaf / Radmanovic
Wallace / Bynum / Mihm
Bullets:
A frontline of Odom, Turiaf and Wallace will be stellar defensively.
Our new "bench mob" is still intact with Farmar - Evans - Luke - Vlad - Drew.
I say we contend with this lineup. |
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poppintags08
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2007 - 11:49 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 1409
votes: 14
Status: Offline
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No way man, Ben Wallace looks like the washed up Brian Grant from 3 years ago, and at 15 million for the next 3 years? I don't think so. At this point, Kwame is the better player, younger, more athletic, bigger body, and better contract, I wouldn't trade Kwame for Wallace straight up let alone include J Critt.
The only way they'll dump Wallace and his contract is to include one of their young assets.
Wallace and Noah for Kwame, Mihm and Cook. |
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jbully314
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2007 - 12:08 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 17, 2007 Age: 34
Posts: 1148
votes: 12
Status: Offline
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| I don't see how this would benefit us at all. If Kwame clogs the middle so well, as you say, why would we trade him AND Crittenton for Ben Wallace, who basically does the same thing? Sorry Warren, this one makes absolutely no sense to me. |
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vinny808
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2007 - 12:37 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 884
votes: 14
Status: Offline
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| I doubt the Lakers are looking for another big man. We already have 3 seven footers, Ronny Turiaf, and Lamar Odom. |
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warrenweelim
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2007 - 02:03 PM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 2839
votes: 31
Status: Offline
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Kwame clogging the middle is sarcasm folks. He does cover his man well but he does not do the pick and roll, he cannot catch the ball, cannot step out to make that big man's pick. Big Ben on the other hand, plays all these efficiently. I think there will be little doubt as to the Lakers will do it or not since trading Kwame for Wallace does improve us in many many many other aspects - particularly DEFENSE.
The younger fan base does not realize that defending the pick and roll SHOULD be the center's resposibility. Phoenix does this a million times a game, San Antonio does the occasional flash and pass, and of course Utah does it every time down the court.
Why again do we not trade Kwame for Big Ben?
Wallace helps out on D, something Kwame almost always forgets to do. He has excellent footwork even for an older man and he jumps into defenders to steal, tap or deflect the ball.
For everything I've said, I didn't realize its the Laker fans who dislike the deal. Weird... |
_________________
SIM LEAGUE CHAMPS
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poppintags08
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2007 - 02:30 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 1409
votes: 14
Status: Offline
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Ben Wallace will have the lowest career numbers in years this year, and it will only get worse, and that's while he makes 15 million for the next 3 years, there is not 1 team in the league that will offer anything of value including exp contracts, for Ben Wallace. Your thinking of the Ben Wallace from the past, but this is the old washed up version. Same with Shaq. If you make a case for Wallace, then you can make a case for Shaq, but reality is that both are old washed up overpaid players and they have no trade value at all. Why would you want Wallace killing your cap for the next 3 years just like Grant did? That doesn't make any sense, we've already been through that.
If we make the deal you said, the Lakers will still be in position to re-sign Turiaf and Evans to new contracts, also Bynum will be eligable for an extention. Plus, we will still have the FULL mid level to go after another free agent and whatever new draft picks who have gauranteed contracts. With Wallace's 15 million on the books, the ruins a lot of these chances. Is that what you want? The following offseason, Bynum's new contract kicks in, plus you have Odom and Kobe to worry about either by re-signing them, or trading them, or letting them walk, also any new free agents or draft picks, there's just way too many contract issues to worry about and Wallace makes everything way more difficult. If they keep everyone, the Lakers payroll will hit 90-100 million 2 years from now. No way will the Buss's pay 20-30 million in luxury tax.
P.S. Wallace might not even be the starter much longer in Chicago considering Noah is on the rise. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2007 - 08:10 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 01, 2006
Posts: 6694
Location: joliet illinois
votes: 41
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| wallace is on a big time downslide in his career. he has gotten worse every year since they beat us for the title. he is still owed 45 mil over the next 3 years. i say pass. |
_________________
I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.
Michael Jordan
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cba007
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2007 - 09:32 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 716
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
votes: 1
Status: Offline
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I don't like this move either.
besides, if the bulls get anyone from us, it'll be kobe |
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jbully314
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2007 - 01:24 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 17, 2007 Age: 34
Posts: 1148
votes: 12
Status: Offline
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warrenweelim wrote:
Kwame clogging the middle is sarcasm folks. He does cover his man well but he does not do the pick and roll, he cannot catch the ball, cannot step out to make that big man's pick. Big Ben on the other hand, plays all these efficiently. I think there will be little doubt as to the Lakers will do it or not since trading Kwame for Wallace does improve us in many many many other aspects - particularly DEFENSE.
The younger fan base does not realize that defending the pick and roll SHOULD be the center's resposibility. Phoenix does this a million times a game, San Antonio does the occasional flash and pass, and of course Utah does it every time down the court.
Why again do we not trade Kwame for Big Ben?
Wallace helps out on D, something Kwame almost always forgets to do. He has excellent footwork even for an older man and he jumps into defenders to steal, tap or deflect the ball.
For everything I've said, I didn't realize its the Laker fans who dislike the deal. Weird...
Warren, you get a lot of well deserved respect on this site. But this post makes it sound like what you say is the gospel and our opinions are not valid. It is possible for you to be wrong, you know. And you are definitely in the minority on this one.
I love reading your posts, but if other people are not allowed to have an opinion different than yours, then maybe I'll stop.
No disrespect meant, War, but allow others to disagree. |
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LIONHEART_TURIAF21
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2007 - 04:50 AM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Oct 21, 2007
Posts: 555
votes: 6
Status: Offline
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Holy crap we pay Kwame and Cook that much??
Big Ben in LA? I'm down, but for that much? No thanks. Is there anyone we can get in the free agency after this season?? |
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warrenweelim
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2007 - 08:30 AM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 2839
votes: 31
Status: Offline
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jbully314 wrote:
warrenweelim wrote:
Kwame clogging the middle is sarcasm folks. He does cover his man well but he does not do the pick and roll, he cannot catch the ball, cannot step out to make that big man's pick. Big Ben on the other hand, plays all these efficiently. I think there will be little doubt as to the Lakers will do it or not since trading Kwame for Wallace does improve us in many many many other aspects - particularly DEFENSE.
The younger fan base does not realize that defending the pick and roll SHOULD be the center's resposibility. Phoenix does this a million times a game, San Antonio does the occasional flash and pass, and of course Utah does it every time down the court.
Why again do we not trade Kwame for Big Ben?
Wallace helps out on D, something Kwame almost always forgets to do. He has excellent footwork even for an older man and he jumps into defenders to steal, tap or deflect the ball.
For everything I've said, I didn't realize its the Laker fans who dislike the deal. Weird...
Warren, you get a lot of well deserved respect on this site. But this post makes it sound like what you say is the gospel and our opinions are not valid. It is possible for you to be wrong, you know. And you are definitely in the minority on this one.
I love reading your posts, but if other people are not allowed to have an opinion different than yours, then maybe I'll stop.
No disrespect meant, War, but allow others to disagree.
Pardon the post JBully, I didn't mean for it to sound so authoritative. I just wanted to send a message accross that a player like Wallace could help our cause WITHOUT hurting newfound teamwork and cameraderie since he is a team player himself.
Well, I'd still consider this move if I were GM but I also respect the majority's sentiment. |
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