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shouldbeGM
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Post Subject: OKC pressuring LAL to make moves!
 Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 05:26 PM PST
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Joined: May 24, 2012
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Yesterday the OKC Thunder advanced into the NBA Finals. They did so in such convincing fashion that they are favored now to win it ALL. OKC has OFFICIALLY become the juggernot of the West, and considering all of thier 4 best players are very young, the pressure is now on the Lakers to catch up (QUICKLY),with Kobe only having 2 more elite years left (elite as in shooting above 40% -_-). What im implying may not be news to anyone, but the fact OKC just made it into the NBA Finals, has cemented the belief that changes MUST be made (NOW, considering Kobes age). As a (die hard) Laker fan i believe it was a great thing for the Lakers to have OKC be the best team in not only the West,but most likely the league.
SIDENOTE: The LAL #1 need is another wing who can create his own shot,a dude who can shoot,drive and finish. We must be the only good team with only 1 threat to shoot and drive. WHAT DEALS ARE OUT THERE FOR PAU ,where we can get a wing and a jumpshooting 4 back??? Martin & Scola's my fav, i thnk with any deal we also need to get LO or Beastly.. |
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gemfow
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Post Subject: RE: OKC pressuring LAL to make moves!
Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 06:31 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
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| ^^^ just like OKC started to build their team to contend with us(Perkins for Green). The Lakers need to get younger, more athletic, less selfish and definitely faster. Personally I'm hoping the Lakers could swing a deal with Philly to somehow get Iggy and Hawes which would fill the 3 and 4 spots. Iggy can create for himself and there's, can finish well and I feel this team needs that even though he isn't the best shooter out there. |
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LANDONTOP
Last edited by gemfow on Jun 08, 2012 - 06:44 PM PST; edited 1 time in total
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BaadMaster
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Post Subject: Re: OKC pressuring LAL to make moves!
Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 02:28 AM PST
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shouldbeGM wrote:
SIDENOTE: The LAL #1 need is another wing who can create his own shot,a dude who can shoot,drive and finish. We must be the only good team with only 1 threat to shoot and drive. .
Last I looked there was a kid named Andrew Goudelock who could shoot and drive. Of course, The Clown had better shooters to use.
Like Matt "Blind Man" Barnes. |
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Post Subject: Re: OKC pressuring LAL to make moves!
Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 02:43 AM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 01, 2007 Age: 21
Posts: 7846
Location: Sydney, Australia
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BaadMaster wrote:
shouldbeGM wrote:
SIDENOTE: The LAL #1 need is another wing who can create his own shot,a dude who can shoot,drive and finish. We must be the only good team with only 1 threat to shoot and drive. .
Last I looked there was a kid named Andrew Goudelock who could shoot and drive. Of course, The Clown had better shooters to use.
Like Matt "Blind Man" Barnes.
Goudelock is a good option but he's too small to be the guy that this team needs. He'd be great as the first guy off the bench but like you said, Brown just stopped playing him for whatever reason.
A guy like Beasley has the size to be that wing scorer this team needs and he's a realistic option. Sounds like a good fit. |
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KS_v2
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Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 03:37 AM PST
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Joined: Oct 01, 2011
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Goudelock can't drive well or create well. But he's our best sharpshooter but his game isn't good enough yet to be the backup of Kobe. I hope he puts in work and comes back a better player. We need Morris and Goudelock to work out hard in the summer along with Ebanks.
And I'm not sure why everyone's claiming OKC is gonna be the beast of the West for the next 10 years lol. They're gonna lose Harden or Ibaka this off-season ( Indy needs a 2 guard bad and has enough cap space to make OKC sweat ). Same with Ibaka.
OKC will NOT be as strong next season. I say we get a level field next season. OKC will learn what it means to have a thin bench once he leaves.
And I don't think we need to learn selflessness from OKC. They practically play hero-ball almost the entire 2nd half in close games. |
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trialsNtribulations
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Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 09:12 AM PST
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Laker GM
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| ^ I agree with your assessments about OKC... |
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gemfow
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Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 06:57 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
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KS_v2 wrote:
Goudelock can't drive well or create well. But he's our best sharpshooter but his game isn't good enough yet to be the backup of Kobe. I hope he puts in work and comes back a better player. We need Morris and Goudelock to work out hard in the summer along with Ebanks.
And I'm not sure why everyone's claiming OKC is gonna be the beast of the West for the next 10 years lol. They're gonna lose Harden or Ibaka this off-season ( Indy needs a 2 guard bad and has enough cap space to make OKC sweat ). Same with Ibaka.
OKC will NOT be as strong next season. I say we get a level field next season. OKC will learn what it means to have a thin bench once he leaves.
And I don't think we need to learn selflessness from OKC. They practically play hero-ball almost the entire 2nd half in close games.
I hope Goudelock gets some time next season because I felt he was the best backup to Kobe available. If I can watch Shannon Brown backup Kobe for three years and brick three after three and over dribble then I can definitely watch Goudelock get hot and hit two threes in a row and a couple of floaters. Goudelock is actually a decent slasher when a guy plays up on him close enough to take away the jumpshot. The guy is confident and has worked on his game and his defense isn't all that bad.
I hope Morris works hard on his game to the point that Blake has to be moved. I like Blake but his inability or unwillingness to drive and finish around the rim hurts the team at times. Players will play up on him to take away the jumpshot since there is no fear of him taking it to the hole and ultimately it gets his lobs deflected because they're so close to him. If Morris can just come in and just get guys involved sort of like Rondo, you don't need a guy with a jumpshot.
I agreed with what you said about OC as well and ts always crossed my mind how they would keep all those guys together. Unless both players are willing to come in so low salary-wise then they can't possibly keep all the guys together. Personally, I would send Westbrook packing for depth on the team because Harden seems to be a better overall player IMO but that's a hard pill go swallow between choosing talented shooting guards like that because neither is a pg. I think they definitely need to keep Ibaka since he does so much defensively and doesn't require the ball. Like I said that's just they way I would do it, because I prefer Harden over Westbrook due to the slashing and playmaking.
I can't say I feel OKC plays hero ball mostly in second half of games. They do go to their best player which is KD but they are doing things to free him up for great looks. Our team on the other hand seems to just hand it to Kobe and clear out and he has to either create a good look for himself or a good look for a teammate. OKC does have a somewhat isoation heavy offense but they do play a lot of pick and roll which I wouldn't classify as hero ball unless its the ball handler shooting and trying to win on his own. |
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Last edited by gemfow on Jun 08, 2012 - 07:07 PM PST; edited 2 times in total
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IhatetheCeltics
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Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 07:05 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
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KS_v2 wrote:
Goudelock can't drive well or create well. But he's our best sharpshooter but his game isn't good enough yet to be the backup of Kobe. I hope he puts in work and comes back a better player. We need Morris and Goudelock to work out hard in the summer along with Ebanks.
And I'm not sure why everyone's claiming OKC is gonna be the beast of the West for the next 10 years lol. They're gonna lose Harden or Ibaka this off-season ( Indy needs a 2 guard bad and has enough cap space to make OKC sweat ). Same with Ibaka.
OKC will NOT be as strong next season. I say we get a level field next season. OKC will learn what it means to have a thin bench once he leaves.
And I don't think we need to learn selflessness from OKC. They practically play hero-ball almost the entire 2nd half in close games.
Yeah, they will probably be able to keep one of them. My guess is that it will be Ibaka. Just because Harden is more versatile, has a greater skill set, so some team out there (like Indy), is going to throw big money at him. And they already have KD/Westbrook on the perimeter. |
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KS_v2
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 01:21 AM PST
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gemfow wrote:
I hope Goudelock gets some time next season because I felt he was the best backup to Kobe available. If I can watch Shannon Brown backup Kobe for three years and brick three after three and over dribble then I can definitely watch Goudelock get hot and hit two threes in a row and a couple of floaters. Goudelock is actually a decent slasher when a guy plays up on him close enough to take away the jumpshot. The guy is confident and has worked on his game and his defense isn't all that bad.
I hope Morris works hard on his game to the point that Blake has to be moved. I like Blake but his inability or unwillingness to drive and finish around the rim hurts the team at times. Players will play up on him to take away the jumpshot since there is no fear of him taking it to the hole and ultimately it gets his lobs deflected because they're so close to him. If Morris can just come in and just get guys involved sort of like Rondo, you don't need a guy with a jumpshot.
I agreed with what you said about OC as well and ts always crossed my mind how they would keep all those guys together. Unless both players are willing to come in so low salary-wise then they can't possibly keep all the guys together. Personally, I would send Westbrook packing for depth on the team because Harden seems to be a better overall player IMO but that's a hard pill go swallow between choosing talented shooting guards like that because neither is a pg. I think they definitely need to keep Ibaka since he does so much defensively and doesn't require the ball. Like I said that's just they way I would do it, because I prefer Harden over Westbrook due to the slashing and playmaking.
I can't say I feel OKC plays hero ball mostly in second half of games. They do go to their best player which is KD but they are doing things to free him up for great looks. Our team on the other hand seems to just hand it to Kobe and clear out and he has to either create a good look for himself or a good look for a teammate. OKC does have a somewhat isoation heavy offense but they do play a lot of pick and roll which I wouldn't classify as hero ball unless its the ball handler shooting and trying to win on his own.
Gemfow, the problem with Goudelock is that he's undersized for his position, his D isn't much better than Brown's and the fact that he can't dish the ball when he drives.
He can shoot lights out and has a great floater and nice confidence but he needs to improve his offensive awareness and D. At this point, I'm thinking about shipping Blake away and making Goudelock as the backup PG and trade Morris off in any trade and get a decent sized backup SG for Kobe. He wouldn't be asked to play and space the floor like Rondo with Bynum ( who I EXPECT TO IMPROVE ) and Kobe taking most of the playmaking task along with Pau / Iggy and LO ( I desperately want him ) and he can space the floor. His length would make it enough to bother some of the quicker guys and make up for his lack of lateral quickness AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, unlike Morris, he won't give the ball upto Kobe as soon as he establishes eye contact with him lol.
We think alike regarding the Harden issue lol. Westbrook for all his potential will NEVER have the vision Rondo, DWill and CP3 possess ( and they would make OKC lethal if it happens ) and OKC needs playmaking a lot more than scoring, esp. as Ibaka develops on the offensive end as well.
They play just as much iso-ball as we do late in game. The only difference is the fact that the iso possessions are split between Harden, Durant and Westbrook while ours are dependent on Kobe. Regarding them running plays, the only one play they run consistently is run a curl to get Durant near the FT line squaring up a switch with the ball in his hand. All of WB and Harden's possessions are a result of broken plays ( which they have a lot of ) and their individual O simply makes up for it, kinda like Kobe back in '06. They do run PnR with the screener usually being Ibaka or Perk. Both of them rarely get the ball off the roll so I don't see how that makes their O less selfish or predictable. The reason they have such a good offensive production is because their picks ( unlike ours ) actually stop the player for a second ( they're actually fouls. Their moving screens would make Garnett proud ) which lets them shoot or penetrate. I'd hardly count them as plays but that's just me. A lot of guys disagree with me about this lol 
Our bigs need to man up basically and we need another perimeter threat to defeat OKC. Get Odom, develop Goudelock and Ebanks OR get Hawes and Iggy for Pau, get Odom, develop Goudelock as backup PG, Ebanks as backup SG and make Ron our backup SF.
( On a side note, I believe we shouldn't go away from our identity even if it didn't work this time. We need length to win. Not speed. No team can compete with Heat or OKC with regards to athleticism so I don't see how we'll be better off trying to copy them. Our length can still take us to the championship. Think I'll elaborate on it later in the off-season if we don't make any trades. What I do believe is that we need Kobe, Pau and MikeB to sit and break this O and change it up. ) |
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 01:35 AM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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If OKC loses Harden or Ibaka then OKC will come back to the pack some. But they will still have the best team in ball. I would not count on them losing either of them. If they don't lose one of them, forget it. Its just a function of youth and talent, speed and athleticism. There are no trades LA can make that will match what OKC has. Thats just how it is.
Remember too, they will be getting that good young point Eric Maynor back after his injury. His loss was the only reason they signed Fish.
Its just like when Shaq and Kobe were young. Teams could say, "Well what moves and trades can we make to catch the Lakers?" The answer: None.
Sometimes teams hit that talent jackpot where they are just so good you can't get the players to catch them. I mean what players will get to match what they have in Durant, Westbrook and Harden? Guys like that don't grow on trees. They are special. It why that team is special.
That team took a HUGE step to another level in that SA series. They learned during that series how to get even better. During the course of that series they went from the inferior team to the very superior team. The SA players and coaches were raving about just how incrediably good they were. They know. Because SA knew how good their own team was. And OKC just learned and grew and deconstructed SA.
If OKC returns the same team next year, barring injuries, forget it. Kobe and Pau and Metta, Barnes just another year older, OKC just another year better than this year.
And we are not going to make some kind of miracle trades to bring in the quality of players OKC has.
That is just how it works. Time goes on. A team gets old, a new team with stars rises. Just the reality other teams faced when the Shaq-Kobe team emerged and the Kobe-Pau team did.
Back then, in dealing with the Lakers all the fans of those other teams were thinking, "What trades can we make to beat them?" Just like Lakers fans are asking now. There weren't any. Because we were just too good and had too many special players. That is how it worked with us and if OKC doesn't suffer any big player losses, that is how its going to work with them too.
And there aint a damn thing, or trade, LA or any other team can do about it. |
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A dead guy made me screw up the Lakers. Don't blame me!!! - Mitch Kupchak- February 27th, 2013
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BaadMaster
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 05:48 AM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
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The CP3 trade might hqve done the trick. At least for a couple of yesrs.
I often wonder whether a healthy, younger Dr. Buss could have used favors owed to him by the League (like Showtime, etc.) and sweet talked Stern into approving the deal. Knowing how business works, and how people owe people favors, I would bet the Doc could have worked it out over a dinner with Stern.
Too late now. Dr. Buss has clots in his legs, his son seems to be a clot in general and we seem to be stuck with a declining franchise with a colorless and strubborn owner.
Can you say "Chicago post MJ." That is where we are. |
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gemfow
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 07:08 AM PST
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Ks_v2: definitely a rep worthy post, these are the types of posts that add to the site.
I still dot understand how people say Goudelock is undersized for the position. He's a combo guard, and he's 6'3", Shannon Brown is 6'4" and backed up Kobe, so I see a difference in an inch plus it's the wingspan that matters. Someone like Wade is 6'4" but his wingspan makes up for that. Iverson's wingspan made him taller than what he was. I think Goudelock will be fine backing up Kobe, Barbosa at the same height has done well and he is definitely not a pg, neither is Goudelock, he's a scorer. So we are fine there, plus Goudelock's defense wasn't all that bad given he's a rookie, it looked better than Session's defense who is a five year vet. Guys can't improve on much if they're sitting down IMO. We just have to accept that everyone isn't going to defend like Artest, that's what team defense is for.
Not sure what is going to happen with the pg situation. Sessions to me does have quite visible weaknesses but he was find when he was able to play his game, which is open court. He's a lot like Farmar with less of a jumper and less of an attitude. Farmar was at his best in the open court and I believe that's the case with Sessions, he needs to push the ball. I like Blake, I truly do but we really need a guard who will look for a shot in the paint, not a guy who refuses to shoot 20 feet and in, it hurts the team when a guy doesn't take a shot. Blake would also benefit from being in the open court as opposed to a slow it down half court game.
I wasn't too sure if you said you desperately wanted Iggy or LO. Personally I want Iggy more than any other SF right now. He may not have the greatest jumpshot but he has everything else and would fit perfectly with this team. Iggy can handle like a guard, he an find open guys can penetrate, and has good defense. Most importantly is the guy is an athlete an unbelievable one at that, something we haven't had since 2006. Well, we had Shannon Brown but he was only an incredible athlete, not a good ball player like Iggy. The LO thing does open up some possibilities because he is a guy who is a tweener and even if he slows down he will still be as fast as other power forwards, he just will continue to lose the ability to guard small forward, what Lamar has for him is he can handle the ball like a guard and I've seen him ignore Kobe also which is what this team needs to keep guys involved and this would help keep Bynum engaged because Lamar has never really ignored him from what I can remember. IMO Hill is a keeper. Guys who want to do the dirty work are too valuable. Hill played with grit and determination and earned the Lakers extra possessions whether by getting an offensive rebound himself or the ball deflecting off a defensive rebounder who is trying to. Ox out and get the ball at the same time. So a frontline of Lamar, Bynum and Hill doesn't seem all that bad to me, plus Lamar can stretch the floor for Kobe and Bynum and isn't another guy requiring touches.
You bring up some interesting points in regards to OKC, I'm not sure I fully agree though. OKC does run isolations but most of their offense seems to come from pick and roll play. That's like saying Stockton was doing a whole but of one on one play because he was using screens by Malone, Stockton looked for people more than Westbrook ever will but IMO two man basketball is team play because it requires team defense to play team defense to guard it. You hit the nail on the head about that curl play with Durant, but if any team jumps that play, Durant can dump that off to the open big. That is good coaching, running plays to get Durant, their best player into a good scoring position with options. He can shoot the good open look or if a big jumps the play he can find the open big who the guy left. Phil and Brown would just toss it to kbe in the pinch post and now since I'm writing this, I think this is by Kobe's design. At the beginning of the season Kibe used way mre screens and looked better due to open looks, then it went to him getting it at the pinch post and the team clearing out, that's bad coaching by letting a player dictate that. If screens are set to get Kobe to that sweet spot like Durant then we all know that's Kobe's shot or he can drive from it or whatever, ths crap we've been seeing is inefficient.
I know how good of a player Pau is but it's time to let him go. LA is clogged up in the paint, what makes it hard to flourish in LA IMO is the paint is clogged and the ball sticks. Artest needs to go and I will truly miss the guy but even with him shooting better the last 1/4 of the season, he doesn't move the ball fast and he doesn't move well without the ball, well he moves slow without it. You put Iggy there and use Iggy on pick and roll then we have a new dimension. Gasol gone removes a guy who needs touches and even though Gasol didn't pout as visibly as Bynum, Gasol did check out as well during games due to lack of involvement and he is no scrub either. IMO its not that the twin towers don't work, it's that the big three we have doesn't work. |
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LANDONTOP
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PhillyLakeshow
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 08:05 AM PST
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Casual Laker Fan
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I seem to recall close games with OKC...The Lakers focus must be on gaining a top flight reserve unit. The drop off between starters and reserves is the difference between round 2 exits and title parades...Harden is playing so far above any team second units' top guys...that is the major OKC advantage. Teams must rest players. OKC has an all-star talent dominating second units.
Bringing back Odom, signing Roy (if, healthier) would push Lakers back to the top...now, of course, I'd welcome opportunity to see Howard or D-will, etc....
Let's remember, due to the lock out, last season was an anomaly...teams with consistent stabilty in coaching staffs, rosters held a huge advantage. Couple that with fact Stern stole CP3 (destroying team chemistry for half a season in the process), Coach Brown did not have a viable PG who could outrun big's to implement his system for half a season...the end was not unexpected.
Improve (drastically) the second unit. Make blockbuster deals (if, feasible) for either Pau or Bynum. Get to off season and training camps on time...equals Lakers domination 2012-2013!! |
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 08:26 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jan 26, 2009
Posts: 1219
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| Are harden and ibaka restricted FA? If so, they can match any offer for one of them amd my guess is they'll keep harden. Not quite caught up yet in basketball so i could be way wrong. |
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 11:55 AM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 4695
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So the Lakers lose the championship mantle to Dallas last season in convincing fashion.Now a young hungry Thunder team take the Lakers out 4-1 and suddenly the Lakers need to gear up for the Thunder.
The Lakers need to see what changes they can make if any.The Thunder are coming back stronger next season and they will be even hungrier especially if the Heat beat them for the championship in the upcoming finals.
The Lakers are in regroup mode and need to make moves to compete with the Thunder and Spurs and Grizzlies and Clippers and Mavericks and Nuggets and everyone else including the Heat and all the other teams.
This NBA is no cake walk it's tough for the Lakers to win championships.They need to figure out what changes need to be made to beat the the Thunder and all the other elite teams in the NBA.
Current Lakers and Thunder rosters
PG Ramon Sessions/Steve Blake/Darius Morris
SG Kobe Bryant/Andrew Goudelock
SF MWP/Matt Barnes/Devin Ebanks
PF Pau Gasol/Josh McRoberts
C Andrew Bynum/Jordan Hill
PG Russell Westbrook/Derek Fisher/Injured Reserve Eric Maynor/Reggie Jackson
SG Thabo Sefolosha/James Harden
SF Kevin Durant/Daequan Cook
PF Serge Ibaka/Nick Collison
C Kendrick Perkins/Nazr Mohammed/Cole Aldrich
Now you tell me who will win that battle?The OKC team is young and fast and guard heavy with the top wing in the west.Lakers take notes. |
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14ALL41
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 12:49 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: May 24, 2008
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Good conversation---a lot of thoughtful posts without hysteria or the ubiquitous Kobe arguments.
Although we have a good team, they haven't been good enough. Although we have the pieces on paper that can beat the Thunder---and we came close in 2 games---we fell short due to mental lapses and bad shot selection.
According to the ESPN Trade Machine, Harden and Ibaka are both on 2 year contracts. Does anybody have the specifics on that?
In any case, I suspect that the Thunder will do what they need to do to keep Harden, and Ibaka is a niche player that....Please log in to view the entire post.
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 04:27 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
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I don't happen to believe the Lakers need to think in terms of chasing OKC either. That's been well stated above by others. The constraints of the new CBA will catch up with them as well as the lure of heading to more attractive markets for some of their players. Durant is not likely to fit that category though. I think KD is perfectly comfortable staying in OKC for life. But the LA guys like Westbrook and Harden...I'm not so sure. OKC has been pretty creative in building their team though so they may still find ways to stay fresh.
The Lakers issues are more about how they go about playing games as a unit. And I also believe we need to think in terms of team defense instead of simply throwing a somewhat one-dimensional defensive specialist (Artest) at every opponent. He's still pretty amazing at it, but it's just not enough. Artest made me hedge on that near the end of the season though because he was somehow making himself far more of an offensive threat. He's such a mystery man though. But at the very least I think he made himself valuable to other teams in case we do want to trade him instead of amnestying him.
I still have no clue if Sessions is the right guy for the Lakers to run the show for the next few years. And that position is so critical. I seriously doubt it, but I don't know how many of his struggles were because he wasn't allowed to assert his own skills vs. how much he was scared of the moment. Being encouraged to assert his own skills and influence on the team is something that can be corrected. But general fear of the big moment is not as likely to go away.
I would also be surprised if Pau survives the summer as a Laker, but it's clear that nothing is set in cement with this team. A lot will be determined by the market for quality players. But I would assume that there will still be suitors for Pau. Someone has posted somewhere that a return of Lamar Odom would lessen the blow of losing either Pau or Drew since he knows how to play at a high level with either one of them. I think that's true...assuming the pre-2011-12 Lamar still exists. Who knows for sure...but it's probably worth the chance if the opportunity comes up for a reasonable price.
As much as I do not want either Miami or Boston to win a championship over OKC this year, there actually would be a positive to it (please NEVER Boston though). We all know how much of a hurdle it is to win that 1st championship as a franchise. But after that 1st win there's that certain confidence that comes with knowing what it takes to become a champion. After winning rings a team is all that much harder to beat in subsequent years. An athletic OKC team with an added championship swagger might be tougher than we are realizing right now.
Thanks for the discussion everyone. It is refreshing. |
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In many ways it feels like we never even got started -- Steve Nash on Lakers 2012-13 season
LANDONTOP
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ralppcobarde
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 09:03 PM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Age: 19
Posts: 4608
votes: 19
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LakerRRTX wrote:
I don't happen to believe the Lakers need to think in terms of chasing OKC either. That's been well stated above by others. The constraints of the new CBA will catch up with them as well as the lure of heading to more attractive markets for some of their players. Durant is not likely to fit that category though. I think KD is perfectly comfortable staying in OKC for life. But the LA guys like Westbrook and Harden...I'm not so sure. OKC has been pretty creative in building their team though so they may still find ways to stay fresh.
The Lakers issues are more about how they go about playing games as a unit. And I also believe we need to think in terms of team defense instead of simply throwing a somewhat one-dimensional defensive specialist (Artest) at every opponent. He's still pretty amazing at it, but it's just not enough. Artest made me hedge on that near the end of the season though because he was somehow making himself far more of an offensive threat. He's such a mystery man though. But at the very least I think he made himself valuable to other teams in case we do want to trade him instead of amnestying him.
I still have no clue if Sessions is the right guy for the Lakers to run the show for the next few years. And that position is so critical. I seriously doubt it, but I don't know how many of his struggles were because he wasn't allowed to assert his own skills vs. how much he was scared of the moment. Being encouraged to assert his own skills and influence on the team is something that can be corrected. But general fear of the big moment is not as likely to go away.
I would also be surprised if Pau survives the summer as a Laker, but it's clear that nothing is set in cement with this team. A lot will be determined by the market for quality players. But I would assume that there will still be suitors for Pau. Someone has posted somewhere that a return of Lamar Odom would lessen the blow of losing either Pau or Drew since he knows how to play at a high level with either one of them. I think that's true...assuming the pre-2011-12 Lamar still exists. Who knows for sure...but it's probably worth the chance if the opportunity comes up for a reasonable price.
As much as I do not want either Miami or Boston to win a championship over OKC this year, there actually would be a positive to it (please NEVER Boston though). We all know how much of a hurdle it is to win that 1st championship as a franchise. But after that 1st win there's that certain confidence that comes with knowing what it takes to become a champion. After winning rings a team is all that much harder to beat in subsequent years. An athletic OKC team with an added championship swagger might be tougher than we are realizing right now.
Thanks for the discussion everyone. It is refreshing.
and, you still have to worry about Brown's system if his players will buy him or not. if it happens to be not, as we seen this season the rest will be disaster. continuity with Brian Shaw should have been much better than focusing in the future in Mike Brown. |
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"Bad artists copy. Good artists steal". - Pablo Picasso
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Christiannoel
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 10:26 PM PST
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Topbuzz Newbie
Joined: May 09, 2012
Posts: 30
votes: 0
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| Goudelock is listed at 6'3 but he is much closer to 6' or 6'1 |
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Axle
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Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 11:09 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 10637
votes: 42
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| Goudelock would help the Lakers. They should keep Goudelock, but I am not sure whether M Brown likes him. |
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KS_v2
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 02:05 AM PST
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Joined: Oct 01, 2011
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votes: 20
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Am travelling right now so I'll keep this brief.
Thanks gem for the rep. Will reply to your post in detail once I get back home from the trip.
Just wanted to emphasize one point I stated :
Us copying OKC/Miami isn't gonna do us any good because there aren't enough good young versatile players out there with the same contracts. We already have an identity which is our length at EVERY position. It's hard for any team to match up to us length wise and if we make our O more smooth, it's gonna be a much better team.
Hell, look at the Cs, they lost KPerk and with that their defensive fortress but they got more athletic with Bass. They lost. We shouldn't make the same mistake and lose ours. Get Odom back and keep Pau ( or the only viable alternative, iggy AND Hawes ) and retain that huge advantage with a healthier Bynum. Kobe's gonna be back at atleast 80% of '10 Kobe so that's gonna keep our main team in a good position.
If I'm MikeB, I would first blood our youngsters and get a bench. Even in the games we lost vs Thunder, it was our lack of production when the bench came in that killed us.
I went on repeating my points it seems . BTW, Samsung Galaxy SIII rocks for anyone who's wondering  |
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NBAtruthwriter
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 01:05 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Feb 23, 2010
Posts: 1949
votes: 9
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BaadMaster wrote:
The CP3 trade might hqve done the trick. At least for a couple of yesrs.
I often wonder whether a healthy, younger Dr. Buss could have used favors owed to him by the League (like Showtime, etc.) and sweet talked Stern into approving the deal. Knowing how business works, and how people owe people favors, I would bet the Doc could have worked it out over a dinner with Stern.
Too late now. Dr. Buss has clots in his legs, his son seems to be a clot in general and we seem to be stuck with a declining franchise with a colorless and strubborn owner.
Can you say "Chicago post MJ." That is where we are.
I'm pretty convinced now that Chris Paul wouldn't have been enough for this season. It would have just been him and Kobe playing hard. I doubt that that would have been enough. |
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lakerdude
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 01:50 PM PST
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Joined: Jun 24, 2007
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NBAtruthwriter wrote:
BaadMaster wrote:
The CP3 trade might hqve done the trick. At least for a couple of yesrs.
I often wonder whether a healthy, younger Dr. Buss could have used favors owed to him by the League (like Showtime, etc.) and sweet talked Stern into approving the deal. Knowing how business works, and how people owe people favors, I would bet the Doc could have worked it out over a dinner with Stern.
Too late now. Dr. Buss has clots in his legs, his son seems to be a clot in general and we seem to be stuck with a declining franchise with a colorless and strubborn owner.
Can you say "Chicago post MJ." That is where we are.
I'm pretty convinced now that Chris Paul wouldn't have been enough for this season. It would have just been him and Kobe playing hard. I doubt that that would have been enough.
Just because a player shoots 30 times a game doesn't mean they are playing harder than the other guy. If Drew shot 30 to 40 times a game and Kobe only shot 12, would you say that Drew played harder than Kobe? No you wouldn't, so please get off of this Kobe was the only guy playing hard sh*t. It's old as hell... |
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gemfow
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 02:05 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 8310
Location: Maryland
votes: 140
Status: Offline
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Phillylakeshow: our bench does need some work. I think the difference between our bench now and back in 2007-08 is less versatility. We could bring guys like Farmar, Sasha, vlad and so forth but they could push the ball, something Phil allowed that season. At least those guys had a shot, could drive off the shot or make passes, not cp3 passes but they were okay in that department. This season there is Barnes, Blake, McBob and so forth guys who are very limited and aren't even great at one thing.
Katie: personally I don't feel the Lakers need to do some big overhaul because it isn't as of OKC just totally dominated us, we blew a few games that could have easily turned the tide in our favor. I just feel we need a wing player who can get out and run. Then you would be talking about sessions, Kobe a guy like Iggy and then Hill at the four which is a decently fast team.
Ralppcobarde: the Mike Brown offensive system may not be the best but it's not necessarily the worst. I just don't care for the slowness of the ball moving. I've been reaching some of the lakers playoff games and the offense isn't find but I put that more on the players than anything.
Ksv2- I don't feel we need to emulate the OKC because our size others a lot of teams. Webcam do the same thing with Drew and Hill and Lamar Odom. We need some competent depth, some athleticism and speed. |
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LANDONTOP
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Santos888
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 02:16 PM PST
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Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Jun 01, 2012
Posts: 123
votes: 0
Status: Offline
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How about ...
1. Trade Pau Gasol to the Sacramento Kings for Tyreke Evans & Jason Thompson
2. Sign/Trade for Michael Beasley
3. Sign Brandon Roy & Lamar Odom for vet min
Tyreke Evans / Ramon Sessions
Kobe Bryant / Brandon Roy
Michael Beasley / Devin Ebanks
Jason Thompson / Lamar Odom
Andrew Bynum / Jordan Hill
This team can definitely have a chance at beating OKC in a 7 game series... |
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 03:32 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 15, 2008
Posts: 12916
Location: RRTX
votes: 110
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KS_v2 wrote:
I went on repeating my points it seems . BTW, Samsung Galaxy SIII rocks for anyone who's wondering
Still have my Galaxy S. They become "dinosaurs" in a hurry. LOL. Still don't know what to make of Samsung and how they're so slow to release OS upgrades. But there's something to be said for being careful so they don't have a mess.
Do you root your SIII?
OKC - Miami will be interesting to see how it plays out. The age issue is being overplayed IMO right now (not Miami, but the others who have been eliminated). |
_________________
In many ways it feels like we never even got started -- Steve Nash on Lakers 2012-13 season
LANDONTOP
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Axle
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 04:10 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 10637
votes: 42
Status: Offline
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| The Thunder will win because they are deep. The Heat depend too much on their three stars in Bosh, Lebron and Wade. |
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TxLaker
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 07:02 PM PST
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Topbuzz Newbie
Joined: May 21, 2012
Posts: 5
votes: 0
Status: Offline
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| I have never been on board with the "Bynum for Howard trade" (I think Bynum is a better half court offensive player)... HOWEVER, I now think its a must because I believe OKC is a bad match up for Bynum because of transitional defense... Is it just me or can anyone else imagine the nightmare of Bynum playing transitional defense against OKC for the next 10 yrs??? |
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gemfow
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 08:18 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 8310
Location: Maryland
votes: 140
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| TxLaker: I don't agree with what you said. Bynum isn't all that slow like people may think, it's the effort. One play that's an example is when he blocked a shot and a teammate had the ball and passed him the ball for a one handed dunk. Plus Perkins isn't all that fleet of foot so your concerns aren't all that big. Plus the Thunder have to try and match up with Bynum as well. |
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LANDONTOP
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KS_v2
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Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 12:48 AM PST
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Joined: Oct 01, 2011
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LakerRRTX wrote:
Still have my Galaxy S. They become "dinosaurs" in a hurry. LOL. Still don't know what to make of Samsung and how they're so slow to release OS upgrades. But there's something to be said for being careful so they don't have a mess.
Do you root your SIII?
OKC - Miami will be interesting to see how it plays out. The age issue is being overplayed IMO right now (not Miami, but the others who have been eliminated).
They sure have become dinosaurs lol. The mammoth 4.8 inch screen looks gorgeous but few of my other pals who have average palm sizes are finding it difficult to hold and use for extended sessions. I've been fine with it though.
Honestly, this might be the best phone in the market for the foreseeable future - esp. if they get a decent "siri" ripoff on the play store. I don't know if iPhone can actually beat this thing in any way possible, save for the "siri" factor.
Haven't yet tried rooting the device. TBH, even with all the crapware that it comes with, the device hasn't lagged once for me, even when multitasking. I'm gonna probably wait until apps become more demanding or my warranty runs out - whichever comes first lol.
Now, onto things less important  , the NBA Finals. I want OKC to win and then they blow up their team by losing Harden/Ibaka. Simple.
Boston's DONE. Spurs still have one more run. As long as we have Kobe, we're still in it. Jazz need to trade away a few front court players for better depth in perimeter. Clips need a more mature front court and more size on perimeter. Miami still probably won't cover up issues in the front court.
Next season's gonna be a better chance for us. |
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KLakers
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Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 01:18 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Posts: 1031
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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OFF-topic,
KS_v2,
I bought and HAD this SIII just for about 4 hours. I bought it at $750 and a friend wanted it and paid me $900 for it, I lol'd. |
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KS_v2
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Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 02:00 AM PST
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Joined: Oct 01, 2011
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votes: 20
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KLakers
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Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 07:32 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Posts: 1031
votes: 2
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| I am not, because thats the price that people sell it for here in my country. I got it for $750 from amazon . |
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KS_v2
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Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 09:29 AM PST
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Joined: Oct 01, 2011
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votes: 20
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KLakers wrote:
I am not, because thats the price that people sell it for here in my country. I got it for $750 from amazon .
Oh. So you aren't from the US either. Same here. I got mine for an equivalent of $720 dollars here in India . Where're you from anyways? |
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NBAtruthwriter
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Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 06:39 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Feb 23, 2010
Posts: 1949
votes: 9
Status: Offline
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lakerdude wrote:
NBAtruthwriter wrote:
BaadMaster wrote:
The CP3 trade might hqve done the trick. At least for a couple of yesrs.
I often wonder whether a healthy, younger Dr. Buss could have used favors owed to him by the League (like Showtime, etc.) and sweet talked Stern into approving the deal. Knowing how business works, and how people owe people favors, I would bet the Doc could have worked it out over a dinner with Stern.
Too late now. Dr. Buss has clots in his legs, his son seems to be a clot in general and we seem to be stuck with a declining franchise with a colorless and strubborn owner.
Can you say "Chicago post MJ." That is where we are.
I'm pretty convinced now that Chris Paul wouldn't have been enough for this season. It would have just been him and Kobe playing hard. I doubt that that would have been enough.
Just because a player shoots 30 times a game doesn't mean they are playing harder than the other guy. If Drew shot 30 to 40 times a game and Kobe only shot 12, would you say that Drew played harder than Kobe? No you wouldn't, so please get off of this Kobe was the only guy playing hard sh*t. It's old as hell...
I didn't say anything about shot attempts. I'm talking about playing hard. lol... |
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KLakers
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Posted: Jun 12, 2012 - 09:46 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Posts: 1031
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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KS_v2 wrote:
KLakers wrote:
I am not, because thats the price that people sell it for here in my country. I got it for $750 from amazon .
Oh. So you aren't from the US either. Same here. I got mine for an equivalent of $720 dollars here in India . Where're you from anyways?
I'm from Panama. |
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Shepherd
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Posted: Jun 12, 2012 - 11:25 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 10, 2009
Posts: 5837
votes: 34
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Go Kings...the NEW LA team  |
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JonathanDavid_24
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Posted: Jun 12, 2012 - 11:51 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Age: 24
Posts: 5139
Location: Texas
votes: 44
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Thunder took Game 1 over the Heat........ 105-94
great 4th quarter by Durant |
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Valleyxclusive(.)com
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Axle
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 06:44 AM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 10637
votes: 42
Status: Offline
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| The Thunder didn't even play that good the first half and still beat the Heat by eleven points. I am starting to think the Thunder will win it now in five. It seemed to me like James and Wade never got much rest and by the fourth quarter they looked worn out. It it had not been for Battiers three point shooting, the Heat would have lost by twenty. |
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trialsNtribulations
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 08:42 AM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: May 25, 2011
Posts: 2685
votes: 8
Status: Offline
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| ^^ wow didnt watch, glad the Heat got spanked! Sick of my bandwagon coworkers yapping about the Heat and Lebron and on and on and on and cant even name the starting five and forget about naming their coach! I hope they do make quick work of Miami and let it be over and done with! Let OKC get their one and only championship cuz LA will reign supreme next year (fingers, legs and eyes, crossed) lol Go OKC beat the Heatles! |
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userpete1037
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 09:06 AM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Dec 04, 2007
Posts: 3949
votes: 9
Status: Offline
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| The championship needs to stay in the west. Go Thunder...... |
_________________
Lakers fan since I first laid eyes on Magic
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pelonredblue
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 11:35 AM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Jan 22, 2010
Posts: 261
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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| If OKC wins: Nike commercial with Kobe and Durant puppets having a secret "Ring Only" party, with LBJ watching in the bushes outside at the window...Then he looks over and sees Wade walk up to the door, like "Sorry man...I'm not gonna stay long...It's rude not to stop by though |
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Shepherd
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 04:26 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 10, 2009
Posts: 5837
votes: 34
Status: Offline
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| Sounds like a great episode of South Park actually lol |
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pelonredblue
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 05:00 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Jan 22, 2010
Posts: 261
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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Shepherd wrote:
Sounds like a great episode of South Park actually lol
True lol |
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