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gemfow
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Post Subject: In a game of matchups, we just can't matchup.
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 07:49 AM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer



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We all know that the nba is a game of matchups, actually any sport is. Last night, we showed that we don't have any favorable matchups in our favor, maye just one. OKC actually doesn't have any favorable matchups either, but why they did was play as a team.
I'll explain what I mean by the matchups not being favorable. OKC's Durant and Westbrook may not torch Metta and Kobe strictly going one on one, but what they did was use screens to give themselves some daylight and boy did that sun get hot. It was a constant dose of high screen and rolls with Durant, Westbrook and Harden and we couldn't matchup.
I kept thinking to myself, "When are they going to trap Westbrook on the screen and get the ball out of his hands?" Drew finally did that. Whether Drew's trapping was instructed or on his own I have no idea. However Perkins at 265 pounds and not the fastest guy was left alone to go and strain his groin while trying to dunk. Anybody who plays ball knows you suppose to keep your eye on your man and the ball. No other Laker even knew Perkins was by himself 15 feet from the basket, that's sad and it explains why we really aren't that great of a defensive club, lack of awareness and communication. How did no one even know that the ball moved in that direction? Truly sad display of pro basketball. This would probably never happen on a team like Boston and especially Chicago.
David Stern implemented a semi-zone to discourage isolation basketball. The idea was to force teams to play more like a team with ball movement and less like a collection of individuals just dumping it in one player's hands. Apparently, LA still thinks this is the nineties because to see the ball go into certain player's hands and just wait for them to dominate their respective matchups hasn't really worked all that well for us. Players like Blake, Barnes, Sessions, etc are limited players. However other teams have limited players as well but they don't look as bad as they do in Los Angeles. I have no doubt in my mind that Miami or OKC would love to have a player like Blake. Blake can spot up, play pesky defense and just play off of great players. Hard for Blake to play off of great players in LA because they haven't been too great, which brings something else to mind.
Our bench does suck, but is it more like the chicken vs the egg theory? Every team has a guy who is streaky, a guy who can't shoot but hustles and so forth. Why do our role players look so bad at times and on such a consistent basis? I think our role players are only as good as our stars make them. The failure of our role players is a direct reflection of our stars inability to make them better. No, we don't have a guy like Harden or Jason Terry, but those are players who can be starters on other teams, same for Lamar when we had him here in LA. The numbers speak for themselves, does a guy like Blake truly have an open shot at 6'3" when a guy shades away from him and doesn't fully commit to a double team? Has no one else noticed that when LA role players have open shots, they're not as wide open as other teams finding an open man? This is a problem revealed by lack of good ball movement, stars not being totally unselfish and sometimes bad spacing because of the role players themselves. Until our stars start acting like true stars we just won't matchup with other teams.
Wednesday is a new day, I'm skeptical that things will change much but I've been wrong plenty of times and I'll be wrong plenty of times more. I just really hope I'm wrong this time. |
_________________ LANDONTOP
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BaadMaster
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Post Subject: RE: In a game of matchups, we just can't matchup.
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 11:55 AM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer


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This is the same basic team -- with an improved but not Chamberlain-eques Bynum -- as last year's but one year older, with a worse coach. Last year's team was swept by Dallas. And I expect us to be swept by OKC.
But I could be wrong. Logic says we lose. But sports is never logical. |
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Post Subject: RE: In a game of matchups, we just can't matchup.
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 01:32 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer



Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Gem,
It is a weird thing with this team, is it not? I mean you have all these veteran players, most of whom played on other teams. Yet they are so wanting on offense and defense, all they things you go into detail in your post? Why? I mean they know the game, they played under other coaches and different systems. Defense, spacing, its not that complicated for veteran players. Yet the execution is so bad.
It has been apparent to me for a while now that this team wins as it does, simply on the merits of its three best players. They present problems that most teams can't solve. But when we go against the very best, its not enough.
One is tempted to blame the system, or the coach, Brown. But then you think they looked the same with Phil last year and it leaves you scratching your head.
Perhaps it is as you say. Maybe it comes down to the stars, who just don't know how, or want to, make the other players better. They way the stars on the elite teams do.
I wish I had the answer. I wish even more the Lakers did, lol. Usually on a team, even on just a decent one, like Denver, they do something good. We don't seem to do anything good, lol. Well, we do rebound, but we should with Drew and Pau and Metta and Hill. But the thing is, we just go as far as Kobe, Drew and Pau can take us. There is nothing else going on here. This is a very oddball team. |
_________________ A dead guy made me screw up the Lakers. Don't blame me!!! - Mitch Kupchak- February 27th, 2013
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Sizzld
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Post Subject: RE: In a game of matchups, we just can't matchup.
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 01:47 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan


Joined: Feb 10, 2012
Posts: 530
Location: Playtown USA
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| I dont believe we can matchup in the coaching aspect,and this wiill be the problem the rest of the way. Of all the coaches left in the playoffs I believe we have the weakest link,even with Del Negro in Clipper land. |
_________________ I like jewelry
Kobe Bean Bryant
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LuvDaLakers
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Post Subject: RE: In a game of matchups, we just can't matchup.
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 01:59 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan

Joined: Feb 14, 2012
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| This team has no true identity and do NO one thing great, just a lost bunch of souls. |
_________________ "Showtime will always be my favorite time"
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TERRY-TEAGLE
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Post Subject: RE: In a game of matchups, we just can't matchup.
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 02:28 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan


Joined: Jun 15, 2011
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Our bigs don't hedge out on the pick n roll defense
The heat do this very well... They make the guard string out the pick n roll and their bigs bosh/haslem/Anthony hedge out well but at the same time keep an eye on their man and get back to him... That all comes down to a system/philosophy ...practicing it... mastering it... Trusting your teammates. |
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gemfow
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Post Subject: RE: In a game of matchups, we just can't matchup.
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 03:05 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer



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Baad: you are correct. This is the same group of players, attitudes, egos, selfishness that was playing under Phil Jackson. Brown may have implemented a different system, but the pieces are the same, aging, lackadaisical, unaware players who seem to be content to a degree. I've yet to see them play as a team for a full 48 minute, instead thy play as individuals.
SPQR: I just don't think it's a coincidence that productive role players play that much better on other teams but when they come to LA they suddenly play like they've aged six years in one season. Barnes, Artest, Blakeand now Sessions were better players on other teams, but he they came to LA their games have started to wither away. I really started to think what our role p,ayers would look like on other contending teams. What if Lebron was firing a skip pass to Blake over on the What if Westbrook or Paul saw that Artest hd a 200 pound player guarding him? Would he receive the ball? Yes. What if Bynum had his man sealed with an easy score imminent, would Tim Duncan or Tony Parker deliver that pass? I feel that the answers to all the questions are yes and the score in my Marv Albert voice. Instead I'm watching our team do high post isolations like they've done for years. I'm so frustrated watching this squad who doesn't play together as a team.
Teagle: the bigs were hedging out and hedging out hard at the beginning of the season, now it's not happening anymore. |
_________________ LANDONTOP
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Post Subject: RE: In a game of matchups, we just can't matchup.
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 03:10 PM PST
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Laker GM



Joined: Jan 08, 2010
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Baad, Gem
I dont agree with the "same basic team" theory. We are minus two double digit scoring bench players from last season.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't a huge fan of Shannon Brown's chucking up more shots per minute played than any other Lakers sans Kobe, but the fact is he scored in double digits.
LO also scored in double digits. Would he have produced that for us this season? Who knows, but the fact remains he isn't here either.
Between the 2 guys we lost, (guesstimating) about 25 pts of bench production.
Neither of those two were replaced. We have an 8 man rotation, and IMHO, our bench is absolute garbage. |
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Post Subject: RE: In a game of matchups, we just can't matchup.
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 03:24 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer



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Quote:
Barnes, Artest, Blakeand now Sessions were better players on other teams, but he they came to LA their games have started to wither away. I really started to think what our role p,ayers would look like on other contending teams. What if Lebron was firing a skip pass to Blake over on the What if Westbrook or Paul saw that Artest hd a 200 pound player guarding him? Would he receive the ball? Yes. What if Bynum had his man sealed with an easy score imminent, would Tim Duncan or Tony Parker deliver that pass? I feel that the answers to all the questions are yes and the score in my Marv Albert voice. Instead I'm watching our team do high post isolations like they've done for years. I'm so frustrated watching this squad who doesn't play together as a team.
Gem,
Yep. They come here and their games decline. Funny that. Not funny -HA HA- but funny as in, WTF is going on with that?
Baptist,
We certainly miss LO. Or at least the old LO. I don't know what this one is anymore.
But when you look at this way, last year, with Phil, with Brown (Shannon) and LO, we got swept by Dallas.
Either way you slice it, with Phil, LO and Shannon or this year without, when we get deeper into the playoffs against the top teams, were not doing too good.
If we get wiped out in this series and the playoffs for a second straight year, a loud voice starts to say, "Time for a total rebuild" in my ear. |
_________________ A dead guy made me screw up the Lakers. Don't blame me!!! - Mitch Kupchak- February 27th, 2013
Last edited by SPQR on May 15, 2012 - 03:27 PM PST; edited 2 times in total
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maraud
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Post Subject: RE: In a game of matchups, we just can't matchup.
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 03:24 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer


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| I am not ready to throw the towel in yet. We have only played one game and on OKC's floor. Until we lose on our floor I will still think that we can beat them. This thread may be correct but is premature. |
_________________ Kobe is the Lakers Org. cash cow.
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Posted: May 15, 2012 - 03:34 PM PST
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Laker GM



Joined: Jan 08, 2010
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SPQR wrote:
Baptist,
We certainly miss LO. Or at least the old LO. I don't know what this one is anymore.
But when you look at this way, last year, with Phil, with Brown (Shannon) and LO, we got swept by Dallas.
Either way you slice it, with Phil, LO and Shannon or this year without, when we get deeper into the playoffs against the top teams, were not doing too good.
If we get wiped out in this series and the playoffs for a second straight year, a loud voice starts to say, "Time for a total rebuild" in my ear.
Oh, I certainly agree with you Randy.
I just don't think "same team" is a phrase that works, when we don't have those 2 players who produced 25 pts per game combined.
We obviously didn't replace either one.
Our two highest bench scorers this season, Barnes and Blake, were here last season, as you know, and neither averaged double figures.
Our bench is just atrocious, and until we get some much needed fire power, we will not win anything.... |
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maraud
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Posted: May 15, 2012 - 11:51 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer


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| When you talk about Shannon Brown, he gave up more points than he scored. He dribbled until it was stolen. He could not guard his man.He missed giving the ball to the open man constantly while throwing up garbage shots. Getting rid of him and Fish was the best thing that the FO did. Shannon was here twice and both times he ran to the money. He was not really Purple & Gold material. |
_________________ Kobe is the Lakers Org. cash cow.
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gemfow
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 07:09 AM PST
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SPQR: I don't believe in coincidences of players coming to LA and looking like has-beens and we are talking about the very next year too. Better ball movement and unselfish play would help in those regards.
Maraud: this isn't a thread to say rebuild the team, we are done. This thread is more or less some of the things I've observed about the Lakers. Watching the lakers play isolation-post basketball has been painful, there is no ball movement because no one actually drives and kicks on this team. There always seems to be a communication problem on defense and we just can't matchup with teams who actually play together because we just don't play well together.
Mass: you're right, Lamar from last year has been sorely missed and if he played at the same level he would have won us some games because he could have stretched the floor against Denver and some other teams. However Shannon is a player I will never miss. The guy over dribbled, was out of control 55% of the time and is the poster child of a super athlete who doesn't work on his game. |
_________________ LANDONTOP
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 11:17 AM PST
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Laker GM


Joined: Feb 20, 2012
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| The one matchup that can't ever happen again is Steve Blake guarding James Harden. |
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maraud
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 11:33 AM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer


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gemfow wrote:
SPQR: I don't believe in coincidences of players coming to LA and looking like has-beens and we are talking about the very next year too. Better ball movement and unselfish play would help in those regards.
Maraud: this isn't a thread to say rebuild the team, we are done. This thread is more or less some of the things I've observed about the Lakers. Watching the lakers play isolation-post basketball has been painful, there is no ball movement because no one actually drives and kicks on this team. There always seems to be a communication problem on defense and we just can't matchup with teams who actually play together because we just don't play well together.
Mass: you're right, Lamar from last year has been sorely missed and if he played at the same level he would have won us some games because he could have stretched the floor against Denver and some other teams. However Shannon is a player I will never miss. The guy over dribbled, was out of control 55% of the time and is the poster child of a super athlete who doesn't work on his game.
Gem,
I can read. To me it sounded like you had thrown the towel in and was getting ready for next season. If I misinterpreted what you said then I am sorry. |
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maraud
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 11:38 AM PST
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Katie wrote:
The one matchup that can't ever happen again is Steve Blake guarding James Harden.
I agree with you but who would you suggest that we put on Harden without losing coverage of the other opponent players? |
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trialsNtribulations
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 12:00 PM PST
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Laker GM

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| ^^I think we need to be resigned to the fact that fake Rastafarian Harden is gonna get his -- the other dudes, the Cooks and Nasir Mohammed and the backup center/pf Collison, along with Fish cannot be factors for them..Nada one. Harden is gonna get his, plain & simple..We need to nullify all the rest and minimize Sefolosha and the 15 footers by Iblaka and Perkins ...their big 3 will score -- our guys need to outscore them, I think by lessening the other scrubs' opportunities.... |
Last edited by trialsNtribulations on May 16, 2012 - 03:47 PM PST; edited 1 time in total
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gemfow
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 01:00 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer



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Maraud: no need to apologize. I did say I was skeptical that some Of things I saw werer going to change and maybe that's why you thought that I trew in the towel. No doubt that OKC is a strong team and they were buit to battle LA, but I feel LA can compete and ompete well, but how many times do we have to see miscommunication amongst our bigs? How many times do weave to see the offense become stagnant because an isolation set against a premier defender is used? These are major problems against a serious contender.
Harden, Durant and Westbrook all used screens, I say trap the all carrier and make the OKC bigs scorers. |
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maraud
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 02:14 PM PST
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gemfow wrote:
Maraud: no need to apologize. I did say I was skeptical that some Of things I saw werer going to change and maybe that's why you thought that I trew in the towel. No doubt that OKC is a strong team and they were buit to battle LA, but I feel LA can compete and ompete well, but how many times do we have to see miscommunication amongst our bigs? How many times do weave to see the offense become stagnant because an isolation set against a premier defender is used? These are major problems against a serious contender.
Harden, Durant and Westbrook all used screens, I say trap the all carrier and make the OKC bigs scorers.
How long is a good question? My answer is that this is a shortened year with a new coach, asst coaches, new D&O schemes, a new PG and some new players on the bench. Both Fish and LO are gone. So many changes that I never even thought that we would make it into the post season so no matter how far we go this year, I am content. I do not know if the FO will blow up this team next year or not. If they do not then this team could come together next year. I hope that they give it a full year and if those problems exist then blow it up.
I look at the Spurs and marvel at what their FO does year in and year out without blowing up their aging team and cannot see why our FO cannot do the same thing. Sometimes you can get younger without a demolition. |
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trialsNtribulations
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 03:45 PM PST
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Laker GM

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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 03:55 PM PST
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Laker GM

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| we have every talent to match up against okc. its just that lakers are not using their talents. lakers should of have advantage when it comes to match ups |
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 04:00 PM PST
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Laker GM

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kobe/barnes on westbrook
barnes/kobe/ebanks on soften
peace/ebanks on durant
okc should worry about matching against lakers and lakers should take advantage of their size
i don't like brown concept of letting pg guard a pg |
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jrmix006
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 04:30 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan

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I remember when Kobe was really good and teams had to work their whole defense around one guy. but if you remember they stopped doubling Kobe( back wen he was really athletic)because the double team just didnt work lol,
so they shut down other players and let Kobe shoot. He didn't make everything and that's why we lost even if Kobe had 30++.
So the point im trying to make is that we cannot stop Westbrook so let him shoot. i mean we will leave one guy on but now double team. double Durant who is not as athletic as the PG and double harden. Westbrook can drop 50 if he can but limit everyone else with double team. force Westbrook to shoot if we double Durant and harden i mean who is he going to kick it out to perking ibaka to make far jumpers i don't think so.
Now they problem is doubling the right way we need one big down low always to protect penetration not this where bynum is at the 3pt line crap it just leaves the lane open and gasoft well is gasoft and he isnt a center.
so double the right way and doing a better job and defending the pick and roll is key |
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silentevolution
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Posted: May 16, 2012 - 05:43 PM PST
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Casual Laker Fan

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| no faith!!!!lakers still win in 6 self haters you |
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14ALL41
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Posted: May 17, 2012 - 12:05 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan

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| As Game 2 demonstrated, we can flip this around: the Thunder can't match-up with us if we are aggressive and pound the ball in the paint. |
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gemfow
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Posted: May 17, 2012 - 06:09 AM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer



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maraud wrote:
gemfow wrote:
Maraud: no need to apologize. I did say I was skeptical that some Of things I saw werer going to change and maybe that's why you thought that I trew in the towel. No doubt that OKC is a strong team and they were buit to battle LA, but I feel LA can compete and ompete well, but how many times do we have to see miscommunication amongst our bigs? How many times do weave to see the offense become stagnant because an isolation set against a premier defender is used? These are major problems against a serious contender.
Harden, Durant and Westbrook all used screens, I say trap the all carrier and make the OKC bigs scorers.
How long is a good question? My answer is that this is a shortened year with a new coach, asst coaches, new D&O schemes, a new PG and some new players on the bench. Both Fish and LO are gone. So many changes that I never even thought that we would make it into the post season so no matter how far we go this year, I am content. I do not know if the FO will blow up this team next year or not. If they do not then this team could come together next year. I hope that they give it a full year and if those problems exist then blow it up.
I look at the Spurs and marvel at what their FO does year in and year out without blowing up their aging team and cannot see why our FO cannot do the same thing. Sometimes you can get younger without a demolition.
Wow! My grammar seems terrible. Charge it to the autocorrect and me not looking at what I've written prior to posting.
I've been wanting the Lakers for a few years now to retool this team and make the role players younger. That way the team may be taking a couple of steps back, but the steps forward would have allowed us to truly contend with other teams youth and athleticism. San Antonio has done this, now they have a great mix of youth and experience. I don't have as much faith in our FO as the one in San Antonio, they've been doing great stuff for years.
LA showed me something last night, they showed me that they can get to the finals, but a display of taking too long to get into an offense and terrible last second heaves by vets is what did us in and now OKC has confidence that they can win that type of game. That was our type of game, the type we have to win and we didn't. |
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