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lakersfanjeff
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Post subject: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
 Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 04:12 PM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Aug 12, 2009 Age: 23
Posts: 3093
Location: Pasadena, CA
  
votes: 14
Status: Offline
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The whispers have already begun, and it may be time to stop perpetuating the myth. If the Los Angeles Lakers are to repeat as NBA champions it will probably be on the backs of their top six players.
The reserves have failed to live up to their "bench mob" moniker, and have instead been one of the weakest parts of the defending champion's team.
In two out of the first three games the bench has been responsible for blowing double-digit leads, and forcing coach Phil Jackson to re-insert his starters on short rest.
In last night's win over the Atlanta Hawks, the Lakers held a 20 point lead in the fourth quarter. Within a six minute span, the reserves allowed that lead to be whittled to eight before Jackson recalled the cavalry.
Honestly, I can't understand why so many people have fallen in love with the bench in the first place. Everyone from the media to the fans have been singing the praises of the Laker bench, and it's largely undeserved.
In reality the bench is deep, but it's filled with mostly unremarkable players that are talented, but don't excel in any particular areas. Well, that's not entirely, true because they are very good at some things.
One of them is not being able to produce points when needed. The bench consists mainly of Shannon Brown, Jordan Farmar, Luke Walton, D.J. Mbenga, and Sasha Vujacic, and that group is responsible for a whopping 17 points per game.
How can a bench be considered elite if it can't even get you 20 points in a game between five players? Out of that group, only Brown and Walton are hitting any shots with consistency, while Farmar and Vujacic remain prone to horrible shot selection.
While Walton is steady, Farmar and Vujacic seem to have regressed, with Sasha barely able to find many minutes at all. It seems the self-proclaimed "machine", has fallen out of favor with Jackson.
Who can blame him? Sasha hasn't been the same since signing that contract extension, displaying a shot with perfect mechanics and very little results. It seems he can't buy a basket these days.
Another thing the bench does extremely well is allowing opponents the opportunity to get back into games. The opener against the Clippers was bad enough, but last night was absolutely horrific.
The Lakers had largely redeemed themselves from a poor defensive effort against Dallas by suffocating the turnover prone Hawks. When the starters went to the bench, it was safe to assume their evening was over right?
Wrong. The bench came in and immediately started firing jumpers, and allowing the Hawks unimpeded trips to the rim. Hawks reserve and rookie, Jeff Teague virtually outplayed the entire Laker bench by himself.
Jackson was forced to call on Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom, and Andrew Bynum to put the Hawks away. With the exception of Shannon Brown, the laker bench was once again ineffective.
All is not lost though, because the return of Pau Gasol will relegate Odom to the bench, and immediately upgrade their production. Brown's play has been a hidden gem, as he has been the only reserve to command playing time.
It should also be noted that the idea of a "second team", is largely superficial, because most teams leave a starter or two in the game with the reserves to provide cohesion, and to preserve continuity.
For the Laker bench, this not a death-knell, and there is plenty of time to correct whatever ailments there may be. Glancing around at the rest of the NBA elite makes you wonder though.
Every probable contender gets very valuable minutes from their reserves besides the Lakers. Most of the teams even have benches that are capable of closing out games, or even better yet, maintaining advantages that starters have incurred.
The Lakers have the talent on their roster to make this NBA season as successful as the last, but at some point they are going to need a significant contribution from their reserves.
The question remains, will the reserves eventually be able to live up to their lofty expectations, or is the Laker bench we have seen the first three games a harbinger of things to come?
Link: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2828 ... -overrated |
_________________
Chick Hearn will always be my favorite Laker. The Lakers are the champions, you don't have to like it, but you have to live with it.
There's no "i" in team, but there is in win.
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Harry
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Post subject: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 04:24 PM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 07, 2006 Age: 17
Posts: 5319
votes: 28
Status: Offline
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| another bleacherreport...anyways, the Lakers bench WAS overrated. Last season. No one expects them to be sooo good so they're not overrated. Coming off that great 08 year when our bench as alive and well, everyone expected them to continue in 08-09. They didn't. Now we're just expecting them to be a bit better than last year. |
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spankees
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Post subject: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 05:43 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Dec 15, 2008 Age: 100
Posts: 1851
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 16
Status: Offline
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| Joe Smith is better than Sasha, Farmar, and Walton combined. The Lakers needed a veteran on the bench because these guys just dont cut it. Time after time, year after year, we seem to ***** about the same players making the same bonehead plays and not living up to their contracts or their potential. I'll be one happy Laker fan when we could see any one of these guys off the roster. |
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Stay Thirsty My Friends!
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lakeshowsd
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Post subject: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 05:52 PM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Dec 20, 2008 Age: 28
Posts: 2594
Location: North Bend, OR
votes: 32
Status: Offline
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| The Lakers are a championship quality team but they don't have a championship quality bench. 1 through 7 on the roster the Lakers have more talent than any team in the NBA. 8 through 13, they have some of the worst players in the league. If the Lakers win it again in 2010, it will be in spite of a crappy bench, just like in 2009. |
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"No center in the NBA scores 20 per game easier than Andrew Bynum." - lakeshowsd
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OC_Showtime
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Post subject: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 06:44 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Dec 20, 2007
Posts: 1571
Location: Irvine,CA
votes: 20
Status: Offline
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| Who are the people that overrate our bench? That is very old news. They suck now and have for several years and everyone I talk to on this forum and in the office and at the game all agree. Friends that are fans of other teams see the weakness of our bench also. There are no easy answers to upgrade as we never get high any high draft picks and the trade value of the bench is low because the whole league sees our bench players are overpaid and underperforming. |
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maraud
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Post subject: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 07:14 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Posts: 2278
votes: 7
Status: Offline
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| The Laker bench would be overated if someone said that they were the worst in the NBA. Mitch needs to make some trades and fast. Preferrably before the all star break. |
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cuckooroller
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Post subject: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 02:06 AM PST
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Lakers Topbuzz Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Age: 59
Posts: 6661
Location: Italy
votes: 65
Status: Offline
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| If compared with the bench fielded by the Slovakian National Team of Decerebrate Hedgehogs, yes, they are overrated. |
_________________
Steve
"Sasha Vujacic. The All-Time YWCA Scoring Leader".
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SPQR
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Post subject: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 09:21 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 2057
Location: Pennsylvania
votes: 90
Status: Offline
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The back up guards stink too. If Sasha is not hitting, he just is not giving much. To be perfectly frank, I know some people like Farmar or Brown (especially Brown because of his athleticism) but if neither one of them can beat out a very old, diminished Derek Fisher by now, then that is a very strong indictment of both those players. It takes more to being a good player than the ability to jump out of the building.
The fact that neither Farmar or Brown can unseat Derek as the starter tells you just how limited both these guys are. They bring their underwhelming talents to our very mediocre bench right now. |
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"The more innocent they are, the more they deserve to die." - Bertolt Brecht
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Mamba1024
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Post subject: Re: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 11:35 AM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 07, 2008
Posts: 635
votes: 1
Status: Offline
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SPQR wrote:
The back up guards stink too. If Sasha is not hitting, he just is not giving much. To be perfectly frank, I know some people like Farmar or Brown (especially Brown because of his athleticism) but if neither one of them can beat out a very old, diminished Derek Fisher by now, then that is a very strong indictment of both those players. It takes more to being a good player than the ability to jump out of the building.
The fact that neither Farmar or Brown can unseat Derek as the starter tells you just how limited both these guys are. They bring their underwhelming talents to our very mediocre bench right now.
I agree with what you said about Sasha and Farmar, but Shannon? I am not sure what Phil's thinking is on this, but I believe that Shannon deserves that starting PG spot over Fisher, the move just hasn't been made. Farmar is very inconsistent, has a big ego. Sasha does have a good shot, but now his defense seems in the decline, and if his shots aren't falling, what's the use of playing Sasha?
Shannon isn't a pure PG, but he has amazing athleticism, doesn't have a big ego, accepts any role, can shoot on occasion, can defend the SG spot and the PG spot, and he's way more consistent than Farmar and Sasha. So what's there to complain about Shannon? |
_________________
"I mean the guy has every skill...that you could want." - Stu Lantz on Kobe Bryant
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LakerRRTX
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 12:37 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Nov 15, 2008
Posts: 803
Location: Round Rock, TX
votes: 9
Status: Offline
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I think Luke is underrated as a bench player even though his physical talent is never going to be overwhelming or flashy. But he does do things that help the team.
Morrison has not been given a chance yet to show whether or not he can be a factor. So, he can't even be considered in the question yet. I still think he can help off the bench.
Mbenga can bring some very good defense and intensity, but we are too deep along the frontline to seriously consider giving him significant minutes. He does give us an element of depth though, just in case.
Shannon has proven that he can play at a very high level given the right situation. His athleticism is off the charts. PJ may be considering starting him if Fish is ok with the idea. That could change the bench dynamic all together. I'm guessing PJ will leave it as is though.
If Josh Powell could finish anything around the basket he would be very good, but he doesn't seem capable of getting off a shot inside. He's a big who doesn't play like a big even though he's a good rebounder. He has a nice outside shot though. Hard to figure.
As for Farmar and Vujacic, "overrated" doesn't begin to tell the picture. I don't see the spark, the desire to play that should be seen in bench players. Sasha should at least be able to figure out what is a good shot at this point in his career. I can't get his flying-sideways, 3pt throw-up from the corner, with about 22 seconds left on the shot clock vs. the Mavericks off my mind. He should never take a horrible shot like that unless it's in desperation. He didn't hesitate. The signing of Sasha has turned out to be one of our biggest mistakes over the last couple of years, but I would love to eat my words.
In genteral, the bench has some potential, but they need to embrace the role more and bring an intensity that justifies being NBA players. It does seem more and more that we don't stack up well against benches of many other teams. I guess that is stating the obvious. |
_________________
“Oftentimes your strongest, toughest people don’t say a lot, it’s the quiet ones you have to worry about." (Derek Fisher)
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Krispies13
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 01:20 PM PST
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Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Jan 25, 2007
Posts: 196
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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LakerRRTX wrote:
Mbenga can bring some very good defense and intensity, but we are too deep along the frontline to seriously consider giving him significant minutes. He does give us an element of depth though, just in case.
We are not as deep as you think LakerRRTX. I do agree that MBenga has that intensity, but sometimes he does not know how to harness that intensity to something more productive. He gets too excited when he gets the ball underneath and he tries to block EVERY SINGLE shot thrown by the other team which leads to a lot of fouls which does not help the team especially in close games or games where they are playing catch up.
Center: Bynum/Pau/Mbenga
Power Forward: Pau/Lamar/Powell
So pretty much after Bynum and Pau you've got three people coming off the bench to fill up the positions. Lamar of course out of the three is very effective off the bench.. But Mbenga and Powell in my opinion would be eaten alive by some PF/C back ups in the league..
P.S. This is why I miss Ronny...
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LakerRRTX
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 02:47 AM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Nov 15, 2008
Posts: 803
Location: Round Rock, TX
votes: 9
Status: Offline
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| Krispies: I hear what you're saying and you could be right. Overall we don't have a deep bench (pretty lousy in fact) but we're more flexible along the frontline by comparison. Our quality there (after Pau is back) will keep Mbenga limited to extremely little time. If he were on most other teams he would see more time, even if only for the defense, size, and energy that he brings to the game. Decent 7-footers are hard to come by. |
_________________
“Oftentimes your strongest, toughest people don’t say a lot, it’s the quiet ones you have to worry about." (Derek Fisher)
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NigerianLaker
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 03:04 AM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Dec 06, 2008
Posts: 689
votes: 7
Status: Offline
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| The Lakers have no bench. When your bench contributes only six points in an overtime game then I don't think there is a bench at all. |
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Faster than a speeding bullet.
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MrMojo112
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 03:09 AM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Jun 03, 2007 Age: 22
Posts: 4874
Location: The Palace of Wisdom
votes: 22
Status: Offline
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| If only we could clone Kobe 4 more times and have them come off the bench. |
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spankees
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 02:10 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Dec 15, 2008 Age: 100
Posts: 1851
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 16
Status: Offline
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Here's the Lakers bench....
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_________________
Stay Thirsty My Friends!
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maxpower69
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 03:05 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Sep 26, 2008 Age: 22
Posts: 614
votes: 6
Status: Offline
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| We need some vets like Joe Smith even Rafer Alston would be nice. |
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maraud
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 06:29 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Posts: 2278
votes: 7
Status: Offline
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| The Laker bench is non-existant, that's about as onerated as you can get. All 7 probably could not even win in the D league. |
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maraud
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Is The L.A. Lakers' Bench Overrated?
Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 06:32 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Posts: 2278
votes: 7
Status: Offline
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| New name for the bench mob " The D League Dropouts" |
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