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JXN
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Post subject: Bynum's Defense and Other NBA Myths
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 01:11 AM PST
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Casual Laker Fan


Joined: Feb 19, 2009
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Quick question while Andrew Bynum cherry-picks a quick dunk with a playboy bunny on his shoulders and a $60M contract in his back pocket:
What do TJ Ford, Steve Nash and the Lakers’ starting center have in common?
Give up . . .
Going into last night’s game against Atlanta, all three of the aforementioned players were averaging 0.5 blocks per game.
It’s early but the point remains. If Andrew Bynum is healthy enough to play 69 minutes and take 28 shots while scoring 40 points in his first two games of the season, then how come he had only 1 single, lonely, insignificant block in that same span?
It’s early, I know, but if Andrew Bynum can go from averaging 13.1 points and 2.1 blocks per game in 2008 and then 14.3 points and 1.8 blocks per game in 2009 and then 20 points and 0.5 blocks per game this season, does it really matter if the Lakers lead the league in scoring while the second highest scoring team is whatever opponent they happen to have on any given night.
It’s early, you said that. But the Lakers just finished beating the Atlanta Hawks Sunday night while giving up 110 points. Yes, Bynum had 21 points. Yes, Bynum had 2 blocked shots. Yes, he completely forgot to rebound with only 3 on the night while Ron Artest totaled 7 boards and 3 blocks.
Which means by Monday morning, our favorite fifth-year veteran will be averaging 1 block for every 35.3 minutes of play. Meanwhile, at the end of the bench, DJ Mbenga is averaging 1 block for every 19 minutes of play.
I mention this because, yes, it is early, but all indications are that the future of our franchise is willing to trade baskets with the guy he is guarding if it means he puts up All Star scoring stats.
I mention this because, yes, it is early but it may already be too late because being a hall of fame starting center in the NBA is one thing:
Hakeem Olajuwon: 21.9 ppg, 3.1 bpg
David Robinson: 21.1 ppg, 3.0 bpg
Patrick Ewing: 21 ppg, 2.4 bpg
But being the starting center for the World Champion Los Angeles is quite another:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 24.6 ppg, 2.6 bpg
Shaquille O’Neal: 24.7 ppg, 2.3 bpg
So far, Andrew Bynum is way . . .
down . . .
here . . .
Career: 9 ppg, 1.4 bpg.
I’ve noticed he’s added enough offensive moves to push most opposing 7-footers into early foul trouble and late night sweats. I’ve noticed that when he stretches out those long, black, beautiful arms, the banners hanging from the Staples Center rafters rustle with anticipation. And I’ve noticed that he pivots with authority and jump hooks like it’s his god-given right as a young, athletic demigod of American sports culture.
But I wonder if he’s noticed that Dwight Howard has also increased his scoring to more than 20 points per game over the last 3 seasons while also pushing up his block numbers from 2.2 to 2.9 to 3.0 in that same span.
I wonder if Andrew Bynum’s noticed and just doesn’t care. |
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BaadMaster
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Post subject: RE: Bynum's Defense and Other NBA Myths
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 02:13 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan

Joined: May 05, 2007
Posts: 1914
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I was at the Atlanta game so I not only saw the game, but I also watched the Lakers pre-game warmups.
Bynum was the last man on the floor. For awhile I thought he was injured and would not play. His pre-game warmup, truncated as it was, consisted of him doing cross-over dribbling. While I was impressed with his ball handling, I was unimpressed with the lack of seriousness in his pre-game routine.
As to his actual game, he appears to have the defensive passion of a sloth. He never goes after a rebound like it means anything. If it falls into his (admittedly excellent) hands, so be it. It is LO who actually rebounds like a carom has any value. Even Kobe attacks the paint looking for rebounds like a blood hound looking for raw meat.
You cannot create passion in a person for things he cares little about. It is clear he has a passion for scoring. As to any illusions that he might someday turn into a 21st century version of Bill Rusell, or even "Dwight Howard light," it is time to bury them with the hopes of a Benoit Benjamin comeback. |
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IhatetheCeltics
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 02:18 AM PST
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Laker GM

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| lol. No joke. I mean come on. 3 rebounds??? I knew this guy always cares more about scoring than the defensive end. People were always saying, oh no, he just isn't given enough pt, or, "He's getting there rebounding-wise." No he isn't. The guy has no interest in rebounding. It has nothing to do with youth. The guy just doesn't care about rebounding or the defensive end much. Just look at him. Every single time he gets the ball, you know he is gonna shoot it. Regardless of whether he is double teamed, triple teamed, he is gonna shoot it. |
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PinoyLakerFan24-7
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Post subject: RE: Bynum's Defense and Other NBA Myths
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 02:27 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan


Joined: Jan 15, 2007
Posts: 2090
Location: Covina, CALI

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| I do remember him playing back in 07-08, and back then, he fought for rebounds. Drew had a rebounder's mentality: that every rebound was his for the taking. Right now, he doesn't have that mentality, but at least we know that he's had that before. Now it's just a matter of getting himself back into that mode. Habits are hard to break, but for this team to go above and beyond, he really needs to get out of this scoring binge and go back to blocking shots and rebounding consistently. |
_________________ --THE LAKERS' FANTASTIC FOUR--
Kobe Bryant aka The Black Mamba
Pau Gasol aka The Spanish Fly
Andrew Bynum aka The Prodigy
Lamar Odom aka The Goods
Coming soon to an arena near you!
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OCLakerfan8
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 02:32 AM PST
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Serious Laker Fan

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| Its just not right when your guard out-rebounds your center and your small forward out blocks him. What's sad is he kept on saying he'll do whatever the team needs him to do to win another championship during the off season. How does he not know we need him playing d and rebound not him scoring 20ppg? He has shown us he is capable of rebounding and shot blocking he just needs to be more consistent. Phil needs to beat him with a stick till he gets it. |
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gemfow
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 04:38 AM PST
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Laker GM


Joined: Jul 12, 2007
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| We may need to take it easy on him just a little bit and this is why. The two major injuries that Drew sufferred came while he was battling for rebounds. the first time was on Lamar Odom's foot and the secopnd time he was planted while Kobe headbutted his knee. I think it's mental with him and I believe his rebounding will go up. The concern that I do have is his shot-blocking. In the game against Dallas I saw Dirk drive the lane against Lamar and finish with his left hand. I saw Drew boxing out his man, but Drew was clearly in position to challenge the layup without Dirk even seeing him. I think Howard would have sent that one flying back and that's why Bynum and Howard are in two different leagues as far as being players. |
_________________ "It made me feel like I should throw mine away." - Larry Bird, upon hearing that Kobe hadn't earned the MVP trophy until this year.
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SPQR
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 09:54 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan


Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Gemfow,
I agree with you about Drews board work. One thing we have seen in the past, when he is healthy and going well, he does hit the boards. I certainly expect him to start to do it this year too. It is not a concern with me at the time. One also has to remember that Drew is an offensive player-like Pau. There have been many games where Pau had poor rebounding stats, and he is a veteran, not a young kid with limited experience. At 22, with two of his years attenuated by injury, people want him to play like a vet. It is not realistic. It may be what we want, but not realistic. He has had some very good games and people then expect him to play like that all the time or the majority of the time. At 22, it won't happen. It didn't happen for a 22 year old Kobe, nor any 22 year old. It won't happen for Drew yet either.
Of more concern to me at this time is the lack of feeding the post. I saw Drew establish position several times last night yet the ball never made its way in. Derek is becoming famous for this stupid move. He will usually then miss a jumper instead. While Pau is out, the team must feed Drew like he is Pau. Especially when Kobe is not in the geam. It's just that simple. To do otherwise is playing stupid ball, something this team seems to like to play a lot. Even at times when Pau is in the pivot. |
_________________ "The more innocent they are, the more they deserve to die." - Bertolt Brecht
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Krispies13
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 11:18 AM PST
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Casual Laker Fan


Joined: Jan 25, 2007
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| Just a quick comment here.. But He may not block shots, but he does make players like Bibby do incredible 20 foot high floaters to avoid him... iHe does alter shots.. I think he's not really trying to block EVERY single shot because he doesn't want to be in foul trouble... With Pau out of commission.. we can't afford Bynum to be collecting splinters by getting 3 quick fouls because of trying to block every single shot.. Just my 2 1/2 cents |
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SPQR
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 01:03 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan


Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Krispies,
Your 2 1/2 cents are always welcome. You make good points, as you usually do.
Pau is not exactly a shot blocking demon. Like Drew, he is an offensive player first, not a rebounder or shot blocker. He is most effective when getting good touches and many of them, something Drew should be getting now just as much as Pau did last year-but is not. The blame of that can be thrown to his teamates who would rather shoot themselves.
Drew has shown he can rebound and shot block. At 22, still with much to learn, with two wasted years behind him, he will do it well some nights and not so well others. Something a savy basketball fan should know and keep in mind. |
_________________ "The more innocent they are, the more they deserve to die." - Bertolt Brecht
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PinoyLakerFan24-7
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 01:26 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan


Joined: Jan 15, 2007
Posts: 2090
Location: Covina, CALI

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| ^^^ I agree. I mean, didn't Andrew average 11 rpg in the first two games? For the third game, he only grabs three rebounds, and all of a sudden, he's a complete disaster. It's just way too soon to judge anything in the NBA. |
_________________ --THE LAKERS' FANTASTIC FOUR--
Kobe Bryant aka The Black Mamba
Pau Gasol aka The Spanish Fly
Andrew Bynum aka The Prodigy
Lamar Odom aka The Goods
Coming soon to an arena near you!
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lakeshowsd
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 01:40 PM PST
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Laker GM



Joined: Dec 20, 2008 Age: 28
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I guess the Drew bashing is something I'm just going to have to get used to. I thought he played exceptionally well last night despite the 3 rebounds. I saw good shooting percentages from both the field and the free throw line. I saw 2 blocked shots and a solid 21 points scored. Sure he had only 3 rebounds, but that was following 2 consecutive double-double performances in the previous games. Even the apparent "gold standard" Dwight Howard doesn't get a double-double every single night. Sometimes there's foul trouble, sometimes a teammate or teammates have a huge rebounding game, and sometimes the ball just doesn't bounce your way.
Personally, I'm not at all concerned about the fact that Andrew had only 3 boards in last night's game because I think all the positives outweigh the negatives for Andrew throughout the first 3 games of this young season. |
_________________ "No center in the NBA scores 20 per game easier than Andrew Bynum." - lakeshowsd
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lakersfanjeff
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 02:51 PM PST
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Laker GM

Joined: Aug 12, 2009 Age: 23
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Bynum’s defense is a mystery
Just a thought…
How can the Lakers guard collect more rebounds than the starting center? How can the team’s small forward block more shots than the man in the middle?
Andrew Bynum is scoring well enough; his 20.3 points a game is testament to that. Plus, he continues to force teams to alter their shots and fill a scoring void left by Pau Gasol. That’s where the young center seems to be excelling at the moment.
It’s not on defense.
Take for instance the Lakers game against Atlanta on Sunday. Kobe Bryant pulled down eight rebounds and Ron Artest blocked three shots and had seven rebounds. Bynum?
He had three rebounds and two blocked shots.
Bynum has said that his rebounding will come. But you have to wonder if it’s become mental with him considering that he suffered his two knee injuries while battling for rebounds.
Link: http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2009/ ... ery/24283/ |
_________________ Chick Hearn will always be my favorite Laker. The Lakers are the champions, you don't have to like it, but you have to live with it.
There's no "i" in team, but there is in win.
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clutchkb24
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 03:19 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan

Joined: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 980

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gemfow wrote:
We may need to take it easy on him just a little bit and this is why. The two major injuries that Drew sufferred came while he was battling for rebounds. the first time was on Lamar Odom's foot and the secopnd time he was planted while Kobe headbutted his knee. I think it's mental with him and I believe his rebounding will go up. The concern that I do have is his shot-blocking. In the game against Dallas I saw Dirk drive the lane against Lamar and finish with his left hand. I saw Drew boxing out his man, but Drew was clearly in position to challenge the layup without Dirk even seeing him. I think Howard would have sent that one flying back and that's why Bynum and Howard are in two different leagues as far as being players.
Excellent point. I believe Drew is pressuring himself to complete the season more than he is collecting boards and blocking shots. He may be a little hesitant right now to get his feet off the ground. By doing this he is thinking health first which is not bad but Drew must overcome this fear sooner than later if he wants to be an All-Star. |
_________________ "Ron Artest has a look in his eye that is very scary right now"
Mike Breen
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SPQR
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 04:05 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan


Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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I would ask, how is that on some nights in the past, guards rebounded better than Pau or Lamar? I saw games years ago where guards rebounded better than Kareem or Larry Bird. These things happen over the course of a long 82 game season and even longer NBA careers. It should not happen often, but it does, and it will. Like others on here say, it is no disaster if it does happen. Lets judge him over the breadth and width of the season. Like Lakeshowsd said, he was averaging 11 + boards his first two games. Not bad for a young kid coming off his injury. We magnify games way out of porportion. That is why I have not even commented on our 'slow' start as a team the first two games. If we are playing like this 15 games from now, then I will have some things to say about it.
Lets let things run their course for a while first. See what type of patterns develope, and which ones don't. The season is um.... very young, lol. |
_________________ "The more innocent they are, the more they deserve to die." - Bertolt Brecht
Last edited by SPQR on Nov 02, 2009 - 05:00 PM PST; edited 1 time in total
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urkle9
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 04:29 PM PST
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Laker GM

Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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guards sometimes grab more boards than guards, but 3 boards aint cutting it.. Anyway you want to slice it, he is not active enough under the basket. He is way to big and way to strong not to be grabbing more. Rebounding is a mentality thing, thats why dennis rodman did it so well and barkley did it so well.. they were both undersized, but they wanted the ball more than anyone else around them did.
Notice with Bynum, right before the breakout in january; we saw 3,4,3 rebounding games... then the media attacked, all of a sudden, something clicked and he was playing like an all star. |
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SPQR
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 05:02 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan


Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Urkle,
I agree that 3 does not cut it. If this becomes a habitual thing, Phil needs a serious talk with him. Also, players like D Fish and others shooting up jumpers and not getting Drew touches with Pau out does not cut it either. But you don't see much talk about that from you or others. Bad basketball is bad basketball, whether it be a lack of rebounding by Drew or his teamates refusal to utilize him on the offense end. |
_________________ "The more innocent they are, the more they deserve to die." - Bertolt Brecht
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lakersfanjeff
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 05:11 PM PST
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Laker GM

Joined: Aug 12, 2009 Age: 23
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Randy,
I think our starters, maybe Fisher aside, have actually been doing a nice job looking for Andrew. To me, it's the bench that has been doing a terrible job of looking for Andrew, with the exception of Luke. Basically seeing the same thing as last year, whether it would be Andrew or Pau with the 2nd unit. For some reason, the bench players just don't dump it into the post. |
_________________ Chick Hearn will always be my favorite Laker. The Lakers are the champions, you don't have to like it, but you have to live with it.
There's no "i" in team, but there is in win.
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JXN
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 05:55 PM PST
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Casual Laker Fan


Joined: Feb 19, 2009
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For the record, this is what 22-year-old men do while 22-year-old boys don’t:
Shaquille O’Neal (1995)
29.3 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 2.4 bpg
Hakeem Olajuwon (1985)
20.6 ppg, 11.9 rpg, 2.7 bpg
Dwight Howard (2008)
19.8 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 2.1 bpg
Kobe Bryant (2001)
28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5 apg, 1.7 spg
Bynum chose to enter the draft out of sixth period. Bynum chose to sign the 8-digit, 2-comma contract. Bynum chose an athletic trainer this summer over Abdul-Jabbar. More power to him. But as far as I‘m concerned, he’s been gifted that ring and granted that contract. Until he earns either, I sincerely piss on his current stat line as if it was scribbled by Zach Randolph or Eddy Curry.
The Bynum I saw is not the Bynum I see. |
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lakeshowsd
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 06:16 PM PST
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Laker GM



Joined: Dec 20, 2008 Age: 28
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JXN wrote:
For the record, this is what 22-year-old men do while 22-year-old boys don’t:
Shaquille O’Neal (1995)
29.3 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 2.4 bpg
Hakeem Olajuwon (1985)
20.6 ppg, 11.9 rpg, 2.7 bpg
Dwight Howard (2008)
19.8 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 2.1 bpg
Kobe Bryant (2001)
28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5 apg, 1.7 spg
Bynum chose to enter the draft out of sixth period. Bynum chose to sign the 8-digit, 2-comma contract. Bynum chose an athletic trainer this summer over Abdul-Jabbar. More power to him. But as far as I‘m concerned, he’s been gifted that ring and granted that contract. Until he earns either, I sincerely piss on his current stat line as if it was scribbled by Zach Randolph or Eddy Curry.
The Bynum I saw is not the Bynum I see.
So now Bynum is not a man simply because he isn't posting stats like the Hall of Famer and future Hall of Famers you mentioned above? Wow, how remarkably unfair and short-sighted. How many season ending or nearly season ending injuries did Shaq, Hakeem, or Dwight Howard sustain by the time they were 22 years old? Besides, when the H3LL did anyone say Bynum was supposed to be the next Shaq or Hakeem Olajuwon? Those are 2 of the best centers the game has ever seen. I think most reasonable Laker fans simply want Bynum to raise his game to a consistent All-Star level. I believe WHEN Drew makes the All-Star team this year, he will shut up a lot of the doubters and people who like to supposedly "keep it real".
I see Andrew's path as a similar one to Jermaine O'neal, who took several years to develop into a perennial All-Star. Jermaine was obviously affected by injuries later in his career but he still turned out to be quite a talent and was considered one of the NBA's best Power Forward/Centers for a number of years. Never mind the All-time greatest players, I'll be happy if Drew reaches a "Jermaine O'neal type" of All-Star level consistency and quality in his career. I actually believe Drew is a bit further along with his offensive game than Jermaine O'neal was at age 22. If he stays relatively healthy, Drew could very well end up being a greater player than Jermain O'neal was.
You people can continue to knit-pick and hate on Drew for every little thing he does or doesn't do on the basketball court, but I'm personally enjoying watching him play so far this season, and I'm greatly anticipating watching his continued development into a top tier NBA Center.
So go ahead and "piss on" Bynum's stats. Join the chorus of whiners and complainers about how he's not Shaq, Hakeem, or Dwight Howard. Knit-pick and hate on him for not being one of the All-Time greats. Meanwhile, I'll continue to look at the bigger picture as Drew continues to develop into one of the NBA's best big men, and while the Lakers continue to accumulate wins and championships for years to come. |
_________________ "No center in the NBA scores 20 per game easier than Andrew Bynum." - lakeshowsd
Last edited by lakeshowsd on Nov 02, 2009 - 06:53 PM PST; edited 1 time in total
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Kobe+talent=4morerings
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 06:50 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan

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| lakeshowsd people are complaining because he signed a huge contract extension and has thus so far not earned what he was given. bynum is playing well we would just like to see him get more rebounds and blocks especially sense pau is out, he needs to not worry so much about the scoring as much because when pau comes back he is the clear 2nd option and bynums touches will diminish, but thats not to say he wont still be able to dominate cuz he will probably play a lot of minutes with the second unit and he will be the main scoring option |
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IhatetheCeltics
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 06:54 PM PST
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Laker GM

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| well he starts earning the big money this season, so I don't think it is fair after 3 games to say that he has not earned it. |
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lakeshowsd
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 07:02 PM PST
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Laker GM



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Kobe+talent=4morerings wrote:
lakeshowsd people are complaining because he signed a huge contract extension and has thus so far not earned what he was given. bynum is playing well we would just like to see him get more rebounds and blocks especially sense pau is out, he needs to not worry so much about the scoring as much because when pau comes back he is the clear 2nd option and bynums touches will diminish, but thats not to say he wont still be able to dominate cuz he will probably play a lot of minutes with the second unit and he will be the main scoring option
I guess people will always find something to complain about, whether it needs complaining or not.
I, for one, am not going to complain about averages of 20.3 points, 8.7 boards, 1.1 assists, 1.0 block(s), 54% shooting, 83% free throw shooting through 3 games. I don't see a lot to complain about with those All-Star level stat averages from our rising star Center. I think people who feel the urgent need to whine and complain about those stat averages are either (A) stupid, (B) blind, or (C) Don't understand the game of basketball |
_________________ "No center in the NBA scores 20 per game easier than Andrew Bynum." - lakeshowsd
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ismosanga
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 08:06 PM PST
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Topbuzz Newbie

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OC_Showtime
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 08:21 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan

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| Thank you lakeshowsd for putting things in perspective. I like what I see with Bynum so far. Greg Oden he is not. Drew is a very talented young offensive minded center. He is making a high percentage of his shots and knocking down his free throws and running the court to set up easy buckets. He is also staying out of foul trouble so he can stay on the court which is crucial with Pau out of the lineup. Maybe the critics here should consider the possibility that young Drew is playing it smart. If he got too aggressive with shot blocking or over the back rebounding and ended up in foul trouble then we would be hurting in the middle. He is a smart kid, he will find the right balance. About the only 3 players I am not worried about this season so far are Kobe, Drew and Lamar. |
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lakeshowsd
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 09:20 PM PST
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Laker GM



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OC_Showtime wrote:
Thank you lakeshowsd for putting things in perspective. I like what I see with Bynum so far. Greg Oden he is not. Drew is a very talented young offensive minded center. He is making a high percentage of his shots and knocking down his free throws and running the court to set up easy buckets. He is also staying out of foul trouble so he can stay on the court which is crucial with Pau out of the lineup. Maybe the critics here should consider the possibility that young Drew is playing it smart. If he got too aggressive with shot blocking or over the back rebounding and ended up in foul trouble then we would be hurting in the middle. He is a smart kid, he will find the right balance. About the only 3 players I am not worried about this season so far are Kobe, Drew and Lamar.
Well put, OC_Showtime and I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from. I could understand some of these complaints if Drew was shooting poor percentages, or consistently rebounding poorly, and defending poorly; but the stats indicate that he's doing those things adequately so far. Even when I watch Drew on the floor, I see him banging down low, contesting shots in the paint, showcasing his strength, balance, athleticism, and skillful post moves. Every game so far, I've seen him move with speed, grace, and agility on both ends of the floor. Am I lying? Is he not doing those things? I think both you and I know that he is.
Maybe Andrew is not meeting the expectations of some Laker fans, but I would argue that those fans are simply unreasonable when you consider that the team is only 3 games into the regular season. Through 3 games, the results don't lie and with Gasol out indefinitely, I think we can expect more extended playing time for Big Drew and as a result, even more impressive stat lines in the weeks to come. |
_________________ "No center in the NBA scores 20 per game easier than Andrew Bynum." - lakeshowsd
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Kobe+talent=4morerings
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 09:32 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan

Joined: Sep 12, 2007
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Location: mesa AZ
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| drew has played fantastically on offense but we the critics would like to see a bigger impact on defense.... you have to admit when you watch drew play he sprints down the court full speed on offense,but on defense he only jogs back, also if he would just box out a little his long frame can easily get 12 rebounds and 2 blocks, but like you guys have said its only 3 games in and gasol is out maybe when he returns we will see the bynum who locked up tim duncan very effectively last year before he got hurt...us critics are only pointing out what phil jackson....a coach with ten rings is and has pointed out.....and why does everyone get so bent out of shape over a little criticism, its not like we are saying he is absolute garbage just we would like to see a little improvement in these areas |
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urkle9
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 09:44 PM PST
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Laker GM

Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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SPQR wrote:
Urkle,
I agree that 3 does not cut it. If this becomes a habitual thing, Phil needs a serious talk with him. Also, players like D Fish and others shooting up jumpers and not getting Drew touches with Pau out does not cut it either. But you don't see much talk about that from you or others. Bad basketball is bad basketball, whether it be a lack of rebounding by Drew or his teamates refusal to utilize him on the offense end.
You dont think they go to Drew alot? I bet you if he tried to pass out of the double team and then repost, just like Shaq did.. he would get alot more touches. Its like he just forces it and gets himself in trouble. Maybe that will come with time. People srtarted to B*tch in late december, January he put on the best performance of his career. Maybe its a good thing and apart of the process. |
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SPQR
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 11:39 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan


Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 2057
Location: Pennsylvania
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| I don't expect him to play like Shaq yet. He ain't Shaq. When I see him run down the floor like last night, get great position, call for the ball then see Derek Fisher look right at him, ignore him and jack up a long shot and miss...again, then I think smart ball is not being played. How about you? |
_________________ "The more innocent they are, the more they deserve to die." - Bertolt Brecht
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urkle9
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 02, 2009 - 11:44 PM PST
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Laker GM

Joined: Oct 06, 2008
Posts: 3651

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SPQR wrote:
I don't expect him to play like Shaq yet. He ain't Shaq. When I see him run down the floor like last night, get great position, call for the ball then see Derek Fisher look right at him, ignore him and jack up a long shot and miss...again, then I think smart ball is not being played. How about you?
Thats when I want to strangle Fish...I was ready for Fisher to go right up until 1:00 minute left to go in game 4 of hte finals lol.. |
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LakerMan7
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 12:04 AM PST
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Casual Laker Fan


Joined: Jul 17, 2008
Posts: 173

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| It's funny how most of you say he needs to play defense and not much offense right now, but with pau out, Bynum needs to score more. If he doesn't, you're leaving all the scoring to Kobe, Ron, and maybe Lamar. As of late, no one else has done anything offensively. So if bynum wasn't averaging 20 ppg right now, the lakers very well could be 1-2, maybe even 0-3. If pau comes back and bynum is still not playing good D and just focusing on offense, then that'll turn into a problem, but as of right now give him a break he's helping us win. |
_________________ "As you can see, once again, I'm probably underpaid," Artest said, jokingly. "But that's OK. At the end of the day, if you can't live on $33 million, then you can't live."
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OCLakerfan8
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 12:58 AM PST
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Serious Laker Fan

Joined: Jun 16, 2006
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| I really don't think its unreasonable to want your Starting center who wants to be your all star to consistently out rebound your guards. I doesn't happen every game but coutning last year and what's happen so fa I think it is a really alarming trend. |
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lakeshowsd
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 01:36 AM PST
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Laker GM



Joined: Dec 20, 2008 Age: 28
Posts: 2594
Location: North Bend, OR
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OCLakerfan8 wrote:
I really don't think its unreasonable to want your Starting center who wants to be your all star to consistently out rebound your guards. I doesn't happen every game but coutning last year and what's happen so fa I think it is a really alarming trend.
Well your comment makes absolutely no sense. If I take your meaning, you are suggesting that Andrew Bynum doesn't consistently out-rebound the guards. Unless I'm mistaken, Bynum averaged over 10 rebounds per game in 35 games played during the 2007/2008 season. He then averaged 8 rebounds per game through 50 games played in 2008/2009. So far in the 2009/2010 season he has 2 double-doubles and is averaging nearly 9 rebounds per game throughout the first 3 games. How is that not consistently out-rebounding the guards on the team?
Please think about your comments before posting and try to makes some sense before submitting them because your last comment made absolutely none. |
_________________ "No center in the NBA scores 20 per game easier than Andrew Bynum." - lakeshowsd
Last edited by lakeshowsd on Nov 03, 2009 - 01:40 AM PST; edited 1 time in total
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PlzOPH3T
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 01:40 AM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan

Joined: Jun 16, 2009
Posts: 507
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| The real problem is, fans overreact on 1 game like it was the coming of the Apocalypse. |
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lakeshowsd
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 01:52 AM PST
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Laker GM



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LakerMan7 wrote:
It's funny how most of you say he needs to play defense and not much offense right now, but with pau out, Bynum needs to score more. If he doesn't, you're leaving all the scoring to Kobe, Ron, and maybe Lamar. As of late, no one else has done anything offensively. So if bynum wasn't averaging 20 ppg right now, the lakers very well could be 1-2, maybe even 0-3. If pau comes back and bynum is still not playing good D and just focusing on offense, then that'll turn into a problem, but as of right now give him a break he's helping us win.
Very astute post, LakerMan7. I hope Kobe+Talent read your post. It pretty much answers his post concerning criticism about Andrew's performance so far. Repped.
Personally, I think these criticisms about Andrew's rebounding and defense are absurd only 3 games into the year, especially considering he's helping to carry the offensive workload for a team that has been largely inept at scoring throughout the first 3 games. I've seen relatively poor shooting percentages from virtually EVERY STARTER except Andrew Bynum, who is posting a solid 54% from the field. Still, there are fans who feel the need to criticize Bynum whether he deserves it or not. The reality is that Bynum doesn't deserve the criticism at this point and he's getting it anyway.
Urkle9,
So Bynum needs to kick the ball back out in order for his teammates to trust him and give him more touches? Hmmm, interesting thought but I see the 54% shooting numbers from Drew and I would prefer they all feed him down low more often instead of jacking up bad shots and posting the horrendous shooting percentages we've seen from basically everyone on the team not named Andrew Bynum or Shannon Brown. There's been some really piss poor shooting from Kobe, Ron, Fisher, Odom, and the hapless bench mob so far this young season. If anyone deserves criticism at this point (which they don't), it's some of those other players I've mentioned; not Bynum.
I think these guys need to remember that they're not playing with Gasol right now. Bynum is a scorer (a potent one at that), not a facilitator. He doesn't have that dimension to his game just yet. If this were Gasol, players could feed him down low and have confidence that they would get the ball back. With Bynum, they often times will not get the ball back. What they WILL get more often than not is a skillful post move from Drew and a high percentage shot. I'd rather see that than a fadeaway jump shot from Kobe with 2 defenders in his face, or a transition 3 pointer from Fisher when Bynum has good low post position and is calling for the rock.
Still, I have confidence that these pros will work everything out, and it shouldn't be long before the Laker offense is a well oiled machine just like last season. |
_________________ "No center in the NBA scores 20 per game easier than Andrew Bynum." - lakeshowsd
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SPQR
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 09:00 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan


Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 2057
Location: Pennsylvania
  votes: 90
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Lakerman7,
I agree with you. In fact, I have always disliked Phil saying, "We don't need Drew to score," as he has done in the past. If Drew is scoring at mid 50's percentage clip or better, then of course you need him to score. It is simple math. If he is scoring at 10 percent higher rate than the other players (Pau excluded with his high percentage) then what is the more efficient way to get the ball in the bucket: Some guard shooting at 46 percent or Drew shooting at 55 percent? Duh...Phil. |
_________________ "The more innocent they are, the more they deserve to die." - Bertolt Brecht
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Janglesjr
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 09:38 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan


Joined: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 1654

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While I agree that JXN is "remarkably unfair and short-sighted", I have to agree with him on this.
Does everyone remember the name Shawn Bradley? Sure you do! The awkward looking, 7 foot 6 inch man that resembled Big Bird, of Sesame Street fame, and had just as little coordination and athleticism? Ah, now you remember.
I believe everyone in here would agree with me that Mr. Bynum has FAR MORE athleticism, coordination and agility in his right big toe (which is huge, I know) than Mr. Bradley has ever or will ever possess. The one big difference is that Shawn Bradley was averaging OVER 3 blocks per game during his first five years.
But "Daddy" (whoops, that's what JD24 refers to me as)....But Darth Jangles, Shawn Bradley is 7-6, he is a whole six inches taller than Drew. I know my friends, I know. Once you are at 7 feet or taller, does it really matter anymore? That's like saying there is a huge difference between -30 degree temperatures and -45 degree temperatures - I PROMISE you - you will not notice a difference.
The fact of the matter is that if you have enough strength and agility to throw a plastic-filled, gold-digging, wiener craving Playboy bunny on your shoulders and then proceed to dance while she is on your shoulders, all on a bad knee....then you definitely have the ability to block more than one ball per game with two good knees.
Begin your applause now.....
Thank you! |
_________________ "I don't get no respect."
-Rodney Dangerfield
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Mamba1024
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 11:09 AM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan


Joined: Jul 07, 2008
Posts: 635

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I don't understand, if Bynum is currently averaging 9 rebounds per game, and had only one game where he got only 3 rebounds, what's the worry? You cannot criticize him this bad for just one game, and I'm pretty sure Bynum regrets only getting 3 rebounds and I assure you he is going to come back and be once again a force in the paint, rebounding, blocking, doing everything to appease his critics and his team.
I agree, with Pau out, Bynum has to be that offensive force in the paint, he has to score. |
_________________ "I mean the guy has every skill...that you could want." - Stu Lantz on Kobe Bryant
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lakeshowsd
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 01:23 PM PST
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Laker GM



Joined: Dec 20, 2008 Age: 28
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Mamba1024 wrote:
I don't understand, if Bynum is currently averaging 9 rebounds per game, and had only one game where he got only 3 rebounds, what's the worry? You cannot criticize him this bad for just one game, and I'm pretty sure Bynum regrets only getting 3 rebounds and I assure you he is going to come back and be once again a force in the paint, rebounding, blocking, doing everything to appease his critics and his team.
I agree, with Pau out, Bynum has to be that offensive force in the paint, he has to score.
I agree, Mamba. What's the worry?
Against the Hawks I actually saw a lot of long rebounds, which generally don't go to the big man in the paint. Does that fully excuse the 3 rebounds? No, but the Lakers as a team still out-rebounded the Hawks 42 to 40 and Lamar ripped down 14 boards. I think people need to seriously give Drew a break because he's really getting it done on the offensive end, and he's been solid on the boards 2 out of 3 games. I could understand if Drew had 3 rebounds and the Lakers were out-rebounded badly by the Hawks, but that was simply not the case. Kobe, Ron, and Lamar were crashing the boards hard and there were simply fewer rebounding opportunities for Drew last game.
Anyone who would suggest that Bynum hasn't attacked the boards with aggression so far this year is just plain wrong. I saw him rip a rebound away from Josh Powell in one of the first 2 games. He posted back-to-back double-doubles. Drew only had 3 rebounds last game but he still had 2 blocks and 21 points. He was defending the paint and getting it done on the offensive end. Give him a freaking break, you d@mn haters. |
_________________ "No center in the NBA scores 20 per game easier than Andrew Bynum." - lakeshowsd
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lakersfanjeff
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Post subject: Bynum’s rebounding not a concern
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 02:56 PM PST
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Laker GM

Joined: Aug 12, 2009 Age: 23
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Location: Pasadena, CA

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EL SEGUNDO
Andrew Bynum took some kidding Monday about the three rebounds he collected against Atlanta on Sunday. That’s three total.
Phil Jackson, though, wasn’t altogether bothered by his center’s lack of boards. Scoring 21 points apparently erases some sins. So does having Lamar Odom at the power forward spot.basketballmiss
“His activity in there was not as good as we like to see it, but he still gets his points,” Jackson said. “Lamar is going to get most of the rebounds along with (Ron) Artest. He (Bynum) certainly should get some rebounds just by being there.”
Presumably more than three. In all fairness, Bynum is averaging 8.7 rebounds through three games, second on the team behind Odom’s 11 boards a game.
Link: http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2009/ ... ern/24353/ |
_________________ Chick Hearn will always be my favorite Laker. The Lakers are the champions, you don't have to like it, but you have to live with it.
There's no "i" in team, but there is in win.
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PlzOPH3T
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Post subject: RE: Bynum�s rebounding not a concern
Posted: Nov 03, 2009 - 03:47 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan

Joined: Jun 16, 2009
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| Just look at Bynum's Field Goal Attempts and that will tell you exactly how many times he touched the ball. |
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