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    J-CoolOffline
    Post subject: Rumors: Can the Lakers Afford to Trade Odom?  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 05:40 PM PST
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    Lamar Odom's Salary Part II: I went to the expert to get a more complete breakdown on Los Angeles Lakers forward Lamar Odom's salary. Cap guru Larry Coon was happy to oblige:

    Odom signed a contract in the summer of 2003 with the Miami HEAT at a base salary of $58.5 million. In the original deal was a signing bonus of $5,781,576. According to the rules of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, signing bonuses are amortized over the life of the contract. In this case, Odom's signing bonus counts on the cap an extra $963,596 - each and every year of his deal.

    (One technical note - bonuses are not amortized over option years - player, team or ETO. In Lamar's case this is immaterial).

    Odom also benefited from a $7.425 million trade bonus when he was traded to the Lakers in 2004. That too is spread out over each year of his deal (except 2003/4 which was before the trade) - even though the money was paid up front. His trade bonus adds an additional $1.485 million to the cap each year.

    To break it all down, Odom received $9 million base salary from Miami plus the entire $5,781,576 signing bonus for a total of $14,781,576 in his first and only year with the HEAT (2003/4). This manipulation from Miami was to discourage the Los Angeles Clippers from matching their offer sheet (Odom was a restricted free agent). The actual cap number for the HEAT that season was just $9,963,596.

    In 2004/5, Odom earned a base salary of $8.1 million from the Lakers but received the additional $7.425 trade bonus in a lump sum - making a total of $15.525 million in his first year with the team. Lamar's cap number was significantly lower at $10,548,596 which included $963,596 and $1.485 for his two bonuses.

    Those bonus numbers remain constant over the final four years of his deal, adding an additional $2,448,596 to his cap number - with the extra monies paid out in 2003 and 2004.

    For the coming 2008/9 season, Odom's base salary is in fact $11.7 million - the amount the Lakers are actually on hook for. His cap number, with the two bonuses factored in, is $14,148,596.

    Should Odom be traded at any point before the February deadline - his trade value would be $14.1 million instead of the $11.7 million base salary.

    Lamar Odom the Player: So what exactly is up with Odom and the Lakers? It seems like Coach Phil Jackson has chosen Lamar to be the preseason "whipping boy" as he tries to find a way to get the most out the enigmatic forward.

    Jackson wouldn't call Odom's play in the team's first preseason game "basketball." Instead he likened Lamar's play to "curling or doing some other kind of sport."

    Additionally Jackson has discussed starting forward Trevor Ariza, moving Odom to the bench. In the meantime he may remain a starter - but at point guard instead of small forward. Jackson also criticized Odom for not working to improve his game over the offseason (opting instead to rest and heal from tendinitis).

    The Lakers are trying to fit Odom into an evolving roster that features center Andrew Bynum, power forward Pau Gasol and star guard/forward Kobe Bryant. Jackson generally prefers to play Bryant at small forward to take advantage of the attack position in the triangle offense - which could minimize Odom's role even further.

    If Odom doesn't work at the point - and isn't a big contributor off the bench - perhaps the Lakers look to move him. Odom's contract expires this summer and a number of teams have already expressed interest.

    To date - the Lakers are hesitant to let go of such a versatile player especially when he's Gasol's primary back up at power forward. Newcomer Josh Powell has had a strong camp. If the Lakers can get a consistent 15-20 mpg out of Powell, Odom may be expendable.

    The Catch: There isn't much beyond speculation on the rumor front as far as who the Lakers would want for Odom. While a number of options are sure to come up throughout the season, the financial implications of trading Odom could be prohibitive.

    One player the Lakers have been rumored to like for a long time is Chicago Bulls point guard Kirk Hinrich. While there isn't any reason to think discussions are active on that front, to understand the economics, let's assume a deal could be fashioned for Lamar Odom (other players could be throw-ins to make salaries match like Chris Mihm, Cedric Simmons, Drew Gooden, etc., but that's outside the scope of this discussion for the moment).

    Hinrich is set to earn $10 million this coming season (plus incentives). He has a unique contract that progressively decreases over the next three seasons ($9.5, $9.0 and $8.0 million respectively). For a starting caliber point guard, that may be reasonable but would that salary work within the Lakers' budget?

    With Kobe Bryant (assuming he either doesn't opt out, or does so and re-signs), Andrew Bynum (who is expected to get a massive extension that would kick in next year) and Pau Gasol, the Lakers could have ~$53 million invested in just three players.

    Add in four players making between $4.8 and $6.5 million (Vladimir Radmanovic, Sasha Vujacic, Derek Fisher and Luke Walton), Jordan Farmar ($1.9 million) plus a few bodies to round out the roster and the team's payroll climbs ever higher.

    Trevor Ariza is a free agent next summer. If he proves to be as valuable as the Lakers hope this season, he could be set to earn a new deal in the $5 million range.

    Add in Hinrich's $9.5 million and the team's salary could hit $94 million BEFORE accounting for a $21 million luxury tax hit. Would Dr. Jerry Buss consider shelling out $115 million in payroll - even for a championship caliber team?

    Certainly the Lakers could look to shed salary but Fisher and Vujacic are likely to stay, and neither Radmanovic nor Walton has the kind of contract other teams are readily willing to acquire.

    Trading Odom for long-term salary may be prohibitive for the Lakers, but so too could re-signing him. Lamar is likely to want at least as much as what Hinrich is paid - probably more.

    There is a reasonable chance that the Lakers simply let him play out his contract and leave in free agency, opting instead to build around the ever-improving Odom-less core.

    Take the theoretical Hinrich salary (or a new Odom deal) out of the equation and the team's salary drops to about $96 million (including tax). Remove Ariza and the Lakers' payroll could be closer to $86 million in total.

    The burden falls upon Dr. Buss to green light what could be the league's highest payroll next season. On paper a Hinrich for Odom deal might make a lot of sense for the Lakers in that they get a steady, two-way point guard on a reasonable (but not inexpensive) three-year deal.

    Additionally there's no sense at this point the Bulls will be willing to make such a deal. Fantasy GM's - substitute another player in Odom's stead - the financial quandary remains the same.

    It's no wonder the team raised ticket prices, especially when season ticket holders are willing to renew at a 99% clip.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=10209
     
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    maxpower69Offline
    Post subject: RE: Rumors: Can the Lakers Afford to Trade Odom?  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 05:56 PM PST
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    get a prospect or quality PG for him any other team will get alot out of Odom Phil's stupid system is the reason Odom is so infective for the lakers no real use for him here unless hes a back up for Gasol in case something happens to Bynum or Gasol just get something for him.
     
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    C0RT3Z.24Offline
    Post subject: Re: RE: Rumors: Can the Lakers Afford to Trade Odom?  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 06:13 PM PST
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    maxpower69 wrote:
    get a prospect or quality PG for him any other team will get alot out of Odom Phil's stupid system is the reason Odom is so infective for the lakers no real use for him here unless hes a back up for Gasol in case something happens to Bynum or Gasol just get something for him.


    Phil's stupid system? The system that has won him 9 championship rings? Wow... Odom is inefective because Odom doesn't put on the work ethic that players need to be a great player. Is Odom a versatile player? Yes he is, but that doesn't mean he is a great player. He could be or atleast could have been. It is sad indeed that Odom, with such great talent that he has, could never really reach that potential. Saying it's because of Phil Jackson's system that Odom is inefective is complete nonsense.
     
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    gemfowOffline
    Post subject: RE: Rumors: Can the Lakers Afford to Trade Odom?  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 06:16 PM PST
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    Even as a backup, I don't feel the triangle is the offense for Lamar. I really feel that if you get Lamar in an uptempo game, that's where he shines.

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    J-CoolOffline
    Post subject: RE: Rumors: Can the Lakers Afford to Trade Odom?  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 06:23 PM PST
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    Hold on Phil said last season that we will run what happened to that system?
     
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    C0RT3Z.24Offline
    Post subject: Re: RE: Rumors: Can the Lakers Afford to Trade Odom?  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 06:32 PM PST
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    gemfow wrote:
    Even as a backup, I don't feel the triangle is the offense for Lamar. I really feel that if you get Lamar in an uptempo game, that's where he shines.


    The problem there Gemflow, is that Phil is not going to change his tactics from running his triangle offense to having an uptempo offense. He might use that type of offense here and there but he is not going to change it completely. I like Odom. The thing that bothers me is that he has been here for a while already and yet he does not take time to realize what he needs to do to become productive in this offense. He has shown glimpses of what he could do if he is motivated, but I doubt that Odom could be consistent on a nightly basis. He wants to be part of this team, but he has to understand that he needs to do what is best for the team. He can't go around saiying he needs to start and doesn't want to be on the bench for "obvious reasons". He needs to work his hardest whether is playing guard or forward. Coming off the bench or starting. I just hope that everything will work itself out. He has to play hard either way because he is in his contract year so I am not that worried about him realizing what he needs to do for this team and at the same type putting up his decent stats to get another good contract from another team, because I highly doubt he will be with us next year unless he takes a paycut.
     
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    Mamba1024Offline
    Post subject: RE: Rumors: Can the Lakers Afford to Trade Odom?  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 06:39 PM PST
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    I say keep Odom until his contract expires, with Bynum possible max contract, Kobe’s possible 20-mill if he decides to opt out and re-sign, Gasol’s approx. 3-year, 51-mill contract (approx. 17-mill per year), and the rest of the Lakers current and new contracts, we may just have a 90+ and possibly 100+ payroll…unless we dump Odom’s contract, but we’d still be left with possibly somewhere around an 80+ payroll, but what would Jerry Buss rather have, an 80+ payroll, or a whopping 90+ and possibly 100+ payroll? If you know Jerry Buss like we all should by now, then this question is very easy, VERY!

    I agree with gemfow completely, Lamar Odom is at his best in the open court, in a half-court offense, eh...not so much. Odom is great for the fast break, open court, up-tempo 2nd Unit, or as most of us call them, "The Bench Mob"!

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    maxpower69Offline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Rumors: Can the Lakers Afford to Trade Odom?  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 06:42 PM PST
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    LOL i didnt really mean stupid system i was kinda talking out of my a** one that one Obviously its a great system i just pointing out Odom is a great player and would so so much better in a different system like if the Knicks got him i bet hed shine i can see them signing him next year.
     
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    maxpower69Offline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Rumors: Can the Lakers Afford to Trade Odom?  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 07:04 PM PST
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    Serious trade here would be LO for Kirilenko that would be nice for the Lakers.
     
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    embuen1991Offline
    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 07:37 PM PST
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    like i've been saying i would welcome a deal that would bring hinrich and nocioni here for lo and afiller ... possibly mihm or farmar?

    I don't understand why Chicago wouldn't want to do it due to them being in the hunt for wade in the year '10.

    however, i do want to see this frontcourt at full potential before making any moves. time will tell, hopefully it will tell a good story

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    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 07:45 PM PST
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    The trade I have always liked involving LO, and perhaps the only one worth pulling, is the one that involves Detroit. LO for Prince and fillers, say Kwame Brown, makes a lot of sense to me.

    Detroit is rumored to want to blow up their current roster and switch things around. Lamar provides some fire power for the Pistons. If any thing, they use him for one season and have around $14mil to throw at a free agent.

    The Lakers get a fantastic SF in Prince who can also drain the 3. Oh yeah, not too mention his astonishing defense. Between Prince and Ariza, we'd have an amazing defensive-duo of small forwards.

    The other trade I'd pull, which I admit is a pipe-dream, is LO for Turiaf and Maggette. That would be amazing....
     
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    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 08:27 PM PST
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    Can the Lakers AFFORD to trade Odom? Not really.

    Not because of his talent or "versatility", but because taking on another long-term big money contract could cripple the franchise.

    If Buss is willing to pay 120 million, great, go out and grab Hinrich and Nocioni for Odom and Farmar, if not - let Odom expire. Just make sure he doesn't become a liability THIS season.

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    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 08:31 PM PST
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    prince would be truly amazing, but it's not gonna happen;

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    dew812Offline
    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 08:50 PM PST
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    how about marion?
     
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    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 - 08:57 PM PST
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    Guys, if we do trade LO, what kind of player would we most like to have in return?

    I'd like to see a playmaker/scorer type - someone who can create scoring opportunities off the dribble. I think we have enough bigs and smalls. Of course an Ariza clone would be nice too!

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    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 10, 2008 - 12:47 AM PST
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    dew812 wrote:
    how about marion?


    I don't think Marion would fit in our system buddy. The best thing for us would be to just let Odom expire to free up some cap space.

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    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 10, 2008 - 12:56 AM PST
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    how many times is this going to be discussed. Odom will not be traded for a straight up salary swap ie player for player, we cant afford a marion or a ak47. If and its a big if, we trade him we would either have to push for a odom/rad odom/walton trade in return for a player of 10mill range and the rest in either expiring contracts, draft picks or cash considerations or a combo of all 3. Or let him expire and throw some money at someone like artest in free agency. Last option we sign kobe or bynum or both for less than expected and we can offer odom something like 8-9mill in a new contract

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    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 10, 2008 - 01:19 AM PST
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    AK47 for Odom do it!
     
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    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 10, 2008 - 01:40 AM PST
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    At this point..we all know that odom can be a great player if consistent..but i dont know how much longer we're willing to wait...i mean...every year us laker fans say...."IF only odom was consistant, he would be a top sf" and every year, odom plays pretty much the same way.. i think IF he doesnt play well with pau and bynum on the floor within the first month or two of this season he should be traded.

    just my 2 cents...
     
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    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 10, 2008 - 07:39 AM PST
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    Tempy wrote:
    how many times is this going to be discussed. Odom will not be traded for a straight up salary swap ie player for player, we cant afford a marion or a ak47. If and its a big if, we trade him we would either have to push for a odom/rad odom/walton trade in return for a player of 10mill range and the rest in either expiring contracts, draft picks or cash considerations or a combo of all 3. Or let him expire and throw some money at someone like artest in free agency. Last option we sign kobe or bynum or both for less than expected and we can offer odom something like 8-9mill in a new contract


    I would say that is the likey scenario. The Lakers unfortunately have bigger fish to fry and trying to keep Odom, even at a discount, may not be fiscally sound. We've already seen him biotch and moan about not being a starter and one would assume that a paycut would create the same emotion.

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    Post subject:   PostPosted: Oct 14, 2008 - 02:05 AM PST