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gemfow
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Post subject: Can the Lakers as is make it back to the championship?
 Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 12:13 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 2290
Location: Maryland
  
votes: 27
Status: Offline
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I know some on here feel the Lakers don't need to change a thing and some feel we need to make some big changes. I personally feel that the Lakers can't make it back if they stay the same and that they need some small tweaks. This is why I feel this way:
It's a copy cat league, so plenty of people will try to copy Boston's defensive schemes, some will do better at it, some will fail miserably. The main thing is that a lot of teams will see that the gameplan against the Lakers were a good one, throw everything at Kobe and take away his post play and make the other guys beat you.
The tweaks I feel the Lakers need to make are at the SF position, I would like to see Artest there if it happens and Ariza backing him up. That means we have some serious wing defense in Kobe, Ariza and Artest and we all know it's a perimeter oriented league now. I've been a big Lamar defender on this site and I'm not down on him, but now it's about a fit now. How does he fit in with two seven footers? He doesn't have a consistent jump shot due to his reluctance to shoot, plus he doesn't demand the ball when he has a mismatch, or a lot of times he just won't take advantage of having a mismatch. So, that means the Lakers don't have a mismatch even if it shows we have one on paper.
A tweak in mentality is needed. With that said that means someone like Artest and possibly a Kurt Thomas would change the toughness mentality in this squad. Well, I shouldn't say the whole squad because I noticed it in only a few players and that would be Vlad, Pau and Luke. We have a pretty tough backcourt in my opinion, it's just our frontline. It would be nice to have a true SF and a big man coming off the bench to give quality minutes, not one who has flashes with great blocks, minimal boards, passes up layups and does things on the bench ranging from the funky chicken to the soulja boy on the bench. I will miss Ronny though.
Anyway, I feel the Lakers are good enough to get deep into the playoffs, but teams will try to emulate what Boston did and we need to make some tweaks to get back to that final seven game series.
Does anyone think the Lakers can get back and win the championship as is and why do you feel that way? |
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"It made me feel like I should throw mine away." - Larry Bird, upon hearing that Kobe hadn't earned the MVP trophy until this year.
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noam57
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Post subject: RE: Can the Lakers as is make it back to the championship?
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 12:31 PM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Jul 16, 2007 Age: 22
Posts: 2936
votes: 4
Status: Offline
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| this is my biggest fear... Im afraid we wont make it to the Finals again! I dont know why becuase we starting all over with Kobe Pau Ariza Bynum and Odom (or Artest) and Im still have a feeling we wont make it to the NBA Finals again! I think we had our chance last year and we didnt take advantage of it.... but who knows as long as we have KB24 everything his possible.. I dont think we need big change we need to bring Ronny subtitue and another PG with exprience! we need a player who only thinks about Championship! there are 3 teams that im afraid of.. Boston Houston and New Orlenas. we can win everyone! I hope for the best! |
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Hollywood_Randy
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 01:02 PM PST
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Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Apr 24, 2008 Age: 34
Posts: 122
Location: Hollywood
votes: 5
Status: Offline
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I agree with you.
If for anything great teams always need to shake things up at least a little to keep other teams guessing. Even if it's something as little as an attitude, or focus on defense. Adding a couple players to change that team a little is always good. I honestly don't thing Moving Lamar is a BIG change for us.
the offense goes through Kobe, when Bynum was healthy, it was starting to lok like Shaq and Kobe again. I appreciate Lamars off paper abilities, but with teh things he can do, he needs to assert himself and be dominant. If he asserted himself, it would not matter if he does not shoot well. But they simple fact is Lamar WON'T assert himself. Disappearing in the Finals should be proof enough that he does not have it in him. I have read every defense of Lamar about size, his regular season stats. But non of that matters if you can't finish. And Lamar just does not have that killer instinct we need.
Bynum is still a question mark. I have suspicions about his knee. he needs to earn that contract this year and prove locking him up for several years is not a mistake.
This team can get back to the finals but they need a few new pieces, at least a few new attitudes by who is on the team. Essencially, the Lakers made it to the Finals with out Bynum or Lamar (at least not the Lamar we needed). Guys like Pau will adjust. They have a whole lot more wisdom. And if we hold on to sasha, who i think CAN be an allstar. We are good.
But, good will just get us there, I want to win it, and the team we have as is... I just question if they can win it.
Houston? Not as long as they depend on Tmac. Problem is, no one wants Tmac. No one with anything valuable to trade. Yao can't do everything. And as impressive as their win streek was it was during the regular season. Once teams took the time to figure them out, they did.
New Orleans? They will be very good, but I think last year was their year to do it if they could, but just couldn't. They are another team that once you figure them out, they are totally beatable. But teh main reason I think they will drop off is Peja is one year older, and he's due for another injury. If they don;t have Peja for CP to kick to... they are done.
Maybe we can give them Vlad for their back up:)
More than Houson, or New Orleans...I hate to say it but San Antonio is always there, and seems to always be better when ever they don't make the finals. AND I hate to say it too, but Utah while they can;t go all the way can be huge spoilers. Especially if they can move AK47 for someone good. Portland could be good, but they have to prove themselves. I west will be good again, but not so jammed up at the top as last year. 4-8 will be a toss up. The East has gotten better. The Celtics experience still blows every one away, but they are a year older, and our bench simply made their bench look like stars...when they really aren't that great.
So all things point to the Lakers being able to make it back, But can they win it as is? |
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Cote88
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Post subject: RE: Can the Lakers as is make it back to the championship?
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 01:03 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 589
Location: chile
votes: 6
Status: Offline
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I think we will play better next year, and the lakers would be able to adjust their game to the type of D that the celtics played.
Besides, I think that next year the whole team is going to be better, I mean we had to completely different teams last year, first with kwame at center with ronny at PF (first games of the season), then with drew starting and then pau, all of them with diferent styles of play. We had so many injuries last year and we where able to get to the finals.
I think we will make it next year |
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Harry
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Post subject: RE: Can the Lakers as is make it back to the championship?
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 01:04 PM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Aug 07, 2006
Posts: 2980
votes: 13
Status: Offline
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I disagree I feel with a healthy Bynum the Lakers can't be stopped and no one will succeed playing Boston's game. We won't be soft in the middle, Byno will be able to dunk over the likes of Perkins and will cause problems for oponents. I just feel Byno will make the difference.
I believe Kobe will also be more aggressive if he faces a defense like Boston's again. He barely got to the rim against Boston in the Finals and since its Kobe, i don't feel he will let that happen again. This is just my opinion though. |
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frank
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 01:18 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: May 26, 2007
Posts: 905
Location: Long Beach, CA
votes: 4
Status: Offline
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I have to agree with you on teams altering defensive schemes to counter the Lakers offense, they will spend the summer doing that plus “tweaking” their lineups, as well as examining the Celtic defense and figuring out how to close down their offense. Everyone will be more ready for both teams next year, I expect a tough season.
We will be getting Arisa and Bynum into the mix to upgrade both offense and defense, and that will make it difficult for teams to really adjust to us since we will have a different look next year, but “tweaks” to shore up weaknesses and strengthen the team will go a long way toward ensuring a return to the finals.
Our defense needs help, and as gemfow says, we need a good big coming off the bench and a strong defensive minded SF would really help. The loss of Turiaf complicates things as well, Kupchak has some work to do. |
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lakers_fan_from_ny
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Post subject: Lakers
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 01:41 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 987
votes: 11
Status: Offline
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| The Lakers just made it to the finals WITHOUT a healthy Bynum and Ariza,I see no team in the west better then the Lakers next year. Only question is can the Lakers improve enough to beat Boston....in the finals??? Or maybe Boston takes a step back. |
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lakeshow707
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 02:27 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 595
votes: 3
Status: Offline
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frank wrote:
I have to agree with you on teams altering defensive schemes to counter the Lakers offense, they will spend the summer doing that plus “tweaking” their lineups, as well as examining the Celtic defense and figuring out how to close down their offense. Everyone will be more ready for both teams next year, I expect a tough season.
We will be getting Arisa and Bynum into the mix to upgrade both offense and defense, and that will make it difficult for teams to really adjust to us since we will have a different look next year, but “tweaks” to shore up weaknesses and strengthen the team will go a long way toward ensuring a return to the finals.
Our defense needs help, and as gemfow says, we need a good big coming off the bench and a strong defensive minded SF would really help. The loss of Turiaf complicates things as well, Kupchak has some work to do.
IN an interview with KG a week or so ago, the interviewer asked KG if other teams would try to copy their defense. His response was they can try, but that doesn't mean they will and you have to have the correct people to do it. And don't credit everything to the Celtics, cuz 3 other teams took them deep into playoff series and we took them to six. I think a bigger problem was our defense and our lack of a strong post presence. Those two things will be addressed with a healthy Bynum and healthy Ariza. Hopefully Thibedeux stays with Boston so he cannot teach the scheme to anyone else |
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gemfow
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Post subject: RE: Lakers
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 02:40 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 2290
Location: Maryland
votes: 27
Status: Offline
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On paper the Lakers do look better than any other team, but it's more than on paper looks that wins a championship. I see Farmar and Bynum both improving, which works well for us, I also see Sasha working on things and I feel confident the Lakers will resign him, he was too important.
The one thing that I saw was Gasol start to become more like Lamar, all the talent in the world but he soon started looking to be set up instead of looking to dominate his man in the paint. Gasol has a nice mid-range jump shot and started to become hesitant to shoot that too, he looked like a Spanish Lamar to me. It makes me wonder if the triangle's reads makes bigs tentative because Gasol looked to score more when we first got him.
It was mentioned that the offense goes through Kobe, and that's part of the problem in my opinion. The offense suppose to go through the post and when Kobe started to play more post up ball in the second half of the season, our offense looked so much better than his isos from the wing. Did anyone notice how Boston doubled Kobe virtually everytime he posted up? He is the only assertive player on that squad and that is one of the reasons I would like to see Artest on the squad or at least hope that Bynum becomes that assertive force, Gasol and Lamar prefer to blend in it seems, which is fine, but you can't have too many players on the team like that someone has to draw the defense in to free up the shooters. |
_________________
"It made me feel like I should throw mine away." - Larry Bird, upon hearing that Kobe hadn't earned the MVP trophy until this year.
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BaadMaster
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Post subject: RE: Lakers
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 05:19 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: May 05, 2007
Posts: 1143
votes: 21
Status: Offline
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It will all be about health and just plain luck. Had Bynum come back within the original projected time frame, we probably would have won it all. The team we have, on paper, is good evough to win 60+ games and take it all. But paper does not incude broken feet, twisted knees and players having a bad year.
There is also luck. Give us fair reffing the first two Celtic games, we might have won in five. Or have you forgotten? On the other hand, had DFish been called for the Brent Barry foul, we might not have made the Finals. If DWade didn't get EVERY calla a few years ago, plus a final phantom call to boot, Shaq would not be gloating now.
Basically, there is a lot of luck involved with winning a Championship. Lots of good teams, only one can win it.
But, at least the Busses almost always give us a team that is fun to watch. Whether it is a Kobe fest with 81 point games, or a near title team this year, we will get our money's worth. And that is all that anyone can ask for.
Go Lakers! |
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griZZly64
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Post subject: Re: RE: Lakers
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 - 05:49 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jun 28, 2007 Age: 21
Posts: 1305
Location: Camarillo, CA
votes: 13
Status: Offline
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BaadMaster wrote:
It will all be about health and just plain luck. Had Bynum come back within the original projected time frame, we probably would have won it all. The team we have, on paper, is good evough to win 60+ games and take it all. But paper does not incude broken feet, twisted knees and players having a bad year.
There is also luck. Give us fair reffing the first two Celtic games, we might have won in five. Or have you forgotten? On the other hand, had DFish been called for the Brent Barry foul, we might not have made the Finals. If DWade didn't get EVERY calla a few years ago, plus a final phantom call to boot, Shaq would not be gloating now.
Basically, there is a lot of luck involved with winning a Championship. Lots of good teams, only one can win it.
But, at least the Busses almost always give us a team that is fun to watch. Whether it is a Kobe fest with 81 point games, or a near title team this year, we will get our money's worth. And that is all that anyone can ask for.
Go Lakers!
Luck? This isn't poker. It takes a lot of SKILL to win a championship. |
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Tempy
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Lakers
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 - 01:38 PM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Posts: 2703
Location: El Pueblo de la Reina de Los Angeles
votes: 4
Status: Offline
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| i feel we defineately have the capability to get back to the finals on a consistent basis as we are, i think next season we will be a paint first attacking team with pau bynum and odom all posting up from inside it will get teams in big foul trouble and our big men are athletic its not even going to effect our transition game id like to see a true sf brought in but not at the expense of odom, if any of our sf's improve over the summer i think we wont need to go looking for other pieces. |
_________________
Nay511 wrote:
Optimistic7292, with that name u are not optimistic.
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CAZ_LAKERFAN_KOBEFAN
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Lakers
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 - 02:14 PM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Oct 27, 2007 Age: 20
Posts: 4575
votes: 4
Status: Offline
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we can, but it won't be easy, we took the league by surprise, rivals didn't expect the lakers to be that good, now, they'll be ready to put a fight and they'll try to adjust to the lakers.
if the lakers put their best, we'll be back at the NBA Finals and ready to take the title. |
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The LakeShow is back.
The Sky is the limit.
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SkeeLoW430
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 - 02:41 PM PST
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Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Aug 06, 2007
Posts: 112
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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Yes we are good enough as is to make it back to the Finals.
We are spoiled to be nit-picking at every minor minute flaw in our team, but the reality, there are a crap-load of teams that would love to have problems like we have. We have Bryant, Gasol, and Bynum. And the thing that we are bitching about is the spot that will probably be our FOURTH option. Ridicuous to not think we can make it to June '09.
My thoughts:
- If Lamar can get a RESPECTABLE jumper, that will do wonders. He doesn't need Kapono-like dead-eye 3-point accuracy, but if he can get a "good enough" jump shot, he will do his job in the triangle. His passing is very underrated, and when he's not busy bulldozing and committing charges, his length and ability to drive is a great asset. Again, I'll take that as a 4th option. His defense will be somewhat of a liability against quicker 3s, but on the flip-side, think of some of the nightmare matchups LO would cause. He'll be able to post and punish those smaller 3s.
- As everyone knows, health will determine if we are a potential 82-0 juggernaut or have to settle for being amongst the other Western powers. Bynum's shot blocking, finishing in the paint, rebounding, blah blah blah will be welcome with open arms. Let's Gasol do his thing as a 4.
- Bryant will play hungrier because he knows this team is set-up for multiple title runs. We all know KB plays his a** off, but we also know he'll play his a** off even more since he knows he's bringing his "guns" to the party.
- The bench gained valuable experience during that playoff run. The team overachieved in getting to the Finals IMO, but if there was one minor plus in the defeat, its that the bench got to experience the biggest stage. They will improve. They are young and have not hit their potential.
- Again with the bench, although we lost Ronny, and don't castrate me for this, but moving Radman to the bench strengthens that unit. As much as we crucify the guy, I think it will benefit him to not have to be a starter and play against other teams' second units. Farmar, Sasha, Radman, Walton, etc etc make a servicable bench.
Sorry for the long read, been a lil while since I've posted since our off seasons been quiet and I don't like to get involved in those "let's trade Vlad, Luke, 6 first-rounders, and cash for LeBron James" threads.
Those are my 4 cents. |
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Tempy
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 - 02:51 PM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Posts: 2703
Location: El Pueblo de la Reina de Los Angeles
votes: 4
Status: Offline
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| nice post man, i really dont think odom will be punished against quicker 3's were going to have bynum or pau dropping off to help if the guy drives past odom and i dont think many sf's are going to be willing to shoot over odom |
_________________
Nay511 wrote:
Optimistic7292, with that name u are not optimistic.
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gemfow
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 - 04:37 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 2290
Location: Maryland
votes: 27
Status: Offline
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| Skeelow430: Great point about Lamar, but the only reason I feel Lamar doesn't have a consistent shot is because he is reluctant to shoot. The other problem with your point about Lamar is that yes on paper he presents match up problems, but he doesn't always take advantage of them. Lamar needs to only do one thing and that's shoot the baby hook in the post, he has a fabulous hook shot. I would rather Lamar stay, but the only time he has shown that he can dominate was against Phoenix in 05-06 when we took them to seven games and he was obviously one of the best players that series. |
_________________
"It made me feel like I should throw mine away." - Larry Bird, upon hearing that Kobe hadn't earned the MVP trophy until this year.
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SkeeLoW430
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 - 05:23 PM PST
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Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Aug 06, 2007
Posts: 112
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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gemfow wrote:
Skeelow430: Great point about Lamar, but the only reason I feel Lamar doesn't have a consistent shot is because he is reluctant to shoot. The other problem with your point about Lamar is that yes on paper he presents match up problems, but he doesn't always take advantage of them. Lamar needs to only do one thing and that's shoot the baby hook in the post, he has a fabulous hook shot. I would rather Lamar stay, but the only time he has shown that he can dominate was against Phoenix in 05-06 when we took them to seven games and he was obviously one of the best players that series.
Definitely agree with you with each of your points.
The Lamar I described is the one with the potential to do all good things and the Lamar you describe is the one that is the reality thus far in his career.
He's another factor that if he plays like he can, we will be a juggernaut.
Glad your in agreement he should stay this season.
At least his contract expires if it doesn't pan out. |
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LakersRabbi
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 - 09:01 PM PST
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Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Nov 08, 2007
Posts: 54
Status: Offline
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| I think our roster right now is good enough to make the finals again. Yeah I know it's tough to make repeat trips, but we have one thing no one else has. Kobe Bryant, the best player on the planet right now. On top of that, we have a great team full of great players. If you ignore the fact that we have Kobe we still have a pretty intimidating team. Really the only thing I'd like to see coming into this next season is a commitment to defense. Phil knows how to coach defense, his 72-10 Bulls were in the top 2 in defense and offense. Our defense last year was middle of the pack at best. I think at this point our offense is so loaded and good that our guys can focus on the other end of the court now. The last few years we were struggling to score the bucket and relied on Kobe's offensive explosions. Now that we have a system that is in place and is run perfectly the only thing we need work on is the D. Last season was the Celtics. Next season is going to be the Lakers, and I'm more confident than ever that will happen, especially now that the whole team is healthy. The only thing that will beat us next year is injuries - and we should all pray that neither Kobe or Pau gets injured during the Olympics. |
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flambergex69
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 21, 2008 - 10:25 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 18, 2008 Age: 35
Posts: 2305
votes: 12
Status: Offline
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| I feel that we will return to the championship this year. What im concerned about is if we can win the finals. True we don't have bynum in the playoffs last season (and a large part of the regular season) and we still went on to the finals, but come the championship series we folded. Because the team lacked focus, they seemed listless and allowed the celtics to physically manhandle them. To win the championship we need a reliable and tough big man to come off the bench either to spell bynum or pau. I just hope that andrew will remain healthy throughout the season including the playoffs. |
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jbully314
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Post subject: Re: Can the Lakers as is make it back to the championship?
Posted: Jul 21, 2008 - 11:56 AM PST
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