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    VujacicSloveniaOffline
    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Diff  PostPosted: Jul 11, 2008 - 11:18 PM PST
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    Zee wrote:
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    Still possess the Bird Rights to keep Bynum regardless of salary cap situation. Luxury Tax because of Thomas? Sure. Loss of Bynum or Ariza? No.


    yea but whats gona happen if we get Artest and Kenny. Artests needs to be resigned next year as well and believe me he will be askin for at least 10 mil a year.

    we wouldn't be able to afford a bynum deal of $15mil and an Artest deal of 10mil while havein Kenny on our backs.

    In which case we will loose Artest anyway.


    Um, considering he was heavily rumored to be worth the MLE, I wouldn't be so confident about that 10 million number. They would still be able to retain Artest.
     
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    nightrain42Offline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Differen  PostPosted: Jul 11, 2008 - 11:30 PM PST
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    I'd wld gamble on Ron, if we didn't have to take a contract like Thomas' for a season after Ron is eligible to leave us. Someone said Kenny could be the back up to Pau. At 6'7' or 6'8"? I don't think so. Rony is more athletic and couldn't do it in the playoffs. We are better off standing pat and like I said earlier, trading LO at the deadline if we have to. I hope we keep him and it works. LO brings a different dimension to the team. He is our best rebounder. Sorry guys, but that is true. LO will grab some rebounds, and more importantly, he won't DEMAND the ball on offense, which Ron is notoriously famous for. With a healthy Bynum, Pau, Kobe, Fish, there won't be enough shots to go around.

    Laker fan in West Texas
     
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    ZeeOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Differen  PostPosted: Jul 11, 2008 - 11:35 PM PST
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    Quote:

    Um, considering he was heavily rumored to be worth the MLE, I wouldn't be so confident about that 10 million number. They would still be able to retain Artest.


    LOL! yea the MLE that is what everyone thought about Corey Maggette, SEE what happened!
    5 year $ 50 mil that is what happen.

    Is Artest worth more then Maggette? Yes
     
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    VujacicSloveniaOffline
    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Diff  PostPosted: Jul 11, 2008 - 11:40 PM PST
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    Zee wrote:
    Quote:

    Um, considering he was heavily rumored to be worth the MLE, I wouldn't be so confident about that 10 million number. They would still be able to retain Artest.


    LOL! yea the MLE that is what everyone thought about Corey Maggette, SEE what happened!
    5 year $ 50 mil that is what happen.

    Is Artest worth more then Maggette? Yes


    Artest has been interested in contenders. Contenders can't offer too much money.
     
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    nightrain42Offline
    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Diff  PostPosted: Jul 11, 2008 - 11:47 PM PST
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    VujacicSlovenia wrote:
    Zee wrote:
    Quote:

    Um, considering he was heavily rumored to be worth the MLE, I wouldn't be so confident about that 10 million number. They would still be able to retain Artest.


    LOL! yea the MLE that is what everyone thought about Corey Maggette, SEE what happened!
    5 year $ 50 mil that is what happen.

    Is Artest worth more then Maggette? Yes


    Artest has been interested in contenders. Contenders can't offer too much money.


    I don't agree. Ron said while considering opting out, he WILL NOT accept less money to play for a contender. So if we get him, he's a one year player, I'm cool w/that, but we still have $9million and Kenny Thomas on the roster for one more year. That's the problem I have.
     
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    ZeeOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE:   PostPosted: Jul 11, 2008 - 11:49 PM PST
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    Quote:

    Artest has been interested in contenders. Contenders can't offer too much money.


    If he TRULY was interensted in a CONTENDER he would have opted out this summer and would have more then easily gotten the MLE. Teams would have died to get a player like Artest for the MLE.

    There is not question about that.

    Artest was pissed he didn’t opt out when we saw that there was more money in the market for example (Maggette). Artest himself said he was missed informed.

    Artest has no business being a King if he really wanted to be with a contender.

    It IS about the money, he has been an extremely underpaid player his entire career .
     
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    nightrain42Offline
    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re:   PostPosted: Jul 11, 2008 - 11:53 PM PST
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    Zee wrote:
    Quote:

    Artest has been interested in contenders. Contenders can't offer too much money.


    If he TRULY was interensted in a CONTENDER he would have opted out this summer and would have more then easily gotten the MLE. Teams would have died to get a player like Artest for the MLE.

    There is not question about that.

    Artest was pissed he didn’t opt out when we saw that there was more money in the market for example (Maggette). Artest himself said he was missed informed.

    Artest has no business bei

    ng a King if he really wanted to be with a contender.

    It IS about the money, he has been an extremely underpaid player his entire career .


    Exactly Zee. See my earlier post
     
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    ZeeOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE:  PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 12:00 AM PST
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    Quote:

    I don't agree. Ron said while considering opting out, he WILL NOT accept less money to play for a contender. So if we get him, he's a one year player, I'm cool w/that, but we still have $9million and Kenny Thomas on the roster for one more year. That's the problem I have.

    Exactly Zee. See my earlier post


    lol! No my friend that is exactly what i said look at the last post on page 1. lol!
     
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    VujacicSloveniaOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE:  PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 12:04 AM PST
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    He's come out and said how much he regretted that decision...

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    ZeeOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE:  PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 12:07 AM PST
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    Quote:

    He's come out and said how much he regretted that decision...


    yea because he saw there was more money on the MARKET then the MLE, did you not read my post!
     
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    VujacicSloveniaOffline
    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re:   PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 12:17 AM PST
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    Zee wrote:
    Quote:

    He's come out and said how much he regretted that decision...


    yea because he saw there was more money on the MARKET then the MLE, did you not read my post!


    He's making quite a bit more than the MLE... all in all this has strayed too far from Kenny Thomas... so it was a decent discussion, but I'm done.
     
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    SLaKKJaWOffline
    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Different Perspective On Kenny Thomas  PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 02:03 AM PST
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    Zee wrote:
    Quote:

    Still possess the Bird Rights to keep Bynum regardless of salary cap situation. Luxury Tax because of Thomas? Sure. Loss of Bynum or Ariza? No.


    yea but whats gona happen if we get Artest and Kenny. Artests needs to be resigned next year as well and believe me he will be askin for at least 10 mil a year.

    we wouldn't be able to afford a bynum deal of $15mil and an Artest deal of 10mil while havein Kenny on our backs.

    In which case we will loose Artest anyway.


    EXACTLY! If luxury tax isn't a concern for Dr. Buss, then we'll definitely find out at the end of next season. If they make this move, then I'd definitely say it isn't, because this move would cost him a TON to make to worthwhile. That opens up almost ZERO cap space for Bynum, assuming that's what and expiring contract's value is to us.

    And as far as Rondo... he's a B level PG. No, I take it back, a C level PG. He's no floor general. He's a poor, poor man's Tony Parker with even less of a jumper. He can drive to a black hole of a lane only to fall short at the rim or have to kick out and he can nick the ball once in a while, but without Garnett, Allen and Pierce, he's nothing at all special. To argue against that is ridiculous. And to use Game 6 as an example for ANYTHING numbers-wise is absolutely ludicrous.

    LKnight wrote:
    Team chemistry surely didn't win it for us this year. We got beat by a newly assembled team that plays D E F E N S E ...

    For the millionth time, WE NEED DEFENSE!!


    No. All team chemistry did for us was get a team that began the season NON-ELITE 6 games into the FINALS! Chemistry developed when Bynum came to fruition and continued on with the addition of Pau. Neither guy had a style that interrupted the flow of the Lakers offense. In fact, it only enhanced it. Now... what happens if Artest goes into the mix while Odom goes out of it? Who knows? But I don't find it worthwhile enough to experiment on a team that, let me remind you, was two games away from being NBA champs.

    TEAM defense makes sense to me, like you said in your post.... one player does not create TEAM defense. It just covers one player a bit better. You think that is Artest was guarding Pierce that that would have made the difference with our soft interior? He may have helped, but to be honest, without Odom in the lineup last year, I don't see the Lakers making the Finals in the first place!

    So we give up GUARANTEED rebounding, ball-handling, outlets, size mismatches and chemistry for possibly points (assuming he can fit into the new system, and even then it's only less than 1PPG going off of career totals on teams where Artest is certainly not the 4th option!), individual defense (I'll give him an edge on that one) and better outside shooting (slightly, in 05-06 when Odom was given the green light and played SF part-time he shot 37% on 3's and still 48% inside the arc, so he CAN shoot.) And to do so we get Artest as a one-time thing unless Buss wants to go way over the cap (Oh, wait... Kenny Thomas' contract would ALREADY push us much further that way.)

    This trade just makes no sense to me. It addresses very little in the way of solving problems and does quite a bit more to potentially create them.

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    SLaKKJaWOffline
    Post subject: Re: RE: Different Perspective On Kenny Thomas  PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 02:25 AM PST
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    Double Post, oops!!

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    Last edited by SLaKKJaW on Jul 12, 2008 - 02:32 AM PST; edited 1 time in total
     
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    Post subject: Re: RE: Different Perspective On Kenny Thomas  PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 02:29 AM PST
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    VujacicSlovenia wrote:
    I don't understand why people keep talking about Artest's personality.

    Do you people realize that Odom had been much maligned earlier in his career? He's a previous offender of the league's drug policy, and (through the media) carried that stigma of "bad locker room presence" for much of his early career.


    Oh, and this... You have to be kidding me. Lamar smoked weed like probably 90% of NBA players (I'm being facetious here). Proves nothing. And regardless of that, he's had absolutely no problems with that as far as the league is concerned since 2001. That's 7 years for those who are counting. 7 of his 9 years playing pro ball. So... way to drudge up old noise to try to make a point.

    And as far as "bad locker room presence"... I haven't heard of any problems like that with the Lakers. And I only care about what involves the Lakers. Plus it's probably just more drudged up junk like the marijuana thing.

    Artest on the other hand? Demanded a trade that damaged his team, only to recant when his destination was decided, only to recant about THAT when the trade was finally made to go thru. He's been "injured" when he wanted to be. Took games off to promote his RAP CAREER. Been put up for charges of animal cruelty, domestic violence and assault. Served... wow, I'm going to have to get a calculator to add this one up, but I'd say pretty close to ONE HUNDRED (100) games of suspension while playing in the NBA. I'm sure there's more to list, but I think I've made point enough..

    And much of this is still very recent when it comes to RonRon. I'm not drudging up 7-year-old garbage to make a weak point here.

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    Post subject: Re: RE: Different Perspective On Kenny Thomas  PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 12:47 PM PST
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    SLaKKJaW wrote:
    VujacicSlovenia wrote:
    I don't understand why people keep talking about Artest's personality.

    Do you people realize that Odom had been much maligned earlier in his career? He's a previous offender of the league's drug policy, and (through the media) carried that stigma of "bad locker room presence" for much of his early career.


    Oh, and this... You have to be kidding me. Lamar smoked weed like probably 90% of NBA players (I'm being facetious here). Proves nothing. And regardless of that, he's had absolutely no problems with that as far as the league is concerned since 2001. That's 7 years for those who are counting. 7 of his 9 years playing pro ball. So... way to drudge up old noise to try to make a point.

    And as far as "bad locker room presence"... I haven't heard of any problems like that with the Lakers. And I only care about what involves the Lakers. Plus it's probably just more drudged up junk like the marijuana thing.

    Artest on the other hand? Demanded a trade that damaged his team, only to recant when his destination was decided, only to recant about THAT when the trade was finally made to go thru. He's been "injured" when he wanted to be. Took games off to promote his RAP CAREER. Been put up for charges of animal cruelty, domestic violence and assault. Served... wow, I'm going to have to get a calculator to add this one up, but I'd say pretty close to ONE HUNDRED (100) games of suspension while playing in the NBA. I'm sure there's more to list, but I think I've made point enough..

    And much of this is still very recent when it comes to RonRon. I'm not drudging up 7-year-old garbage to make a weak point here.


    Lamar Odom was one of the relatively few that have ever been CAUGHT with marijuana... that's all I can go by.

    Most of the games Artest was suspended for stems from ONE incident, ONE horrible night.

    If you want to speak on loyalties, are you aware that Odom severely damaged the Clippers? It had been heavily reported that Odom had told management he wanted to be a Clipper for life, then backed out of it when the Heat offered him a massive contract.

    Does Artest have the more sketchy background? Of course, no one is denying that. But it's not as awful as it's made out to be. The media loves to create pariahs (especially in sports) and Ron Artest was a prime opportunity.
     
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    Post subject: Re: RE: Different Perspective On Kenny Thomas  PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 12:52 PM PST
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    VujacicSlovenia wrote:
    SLaKKJaW wrote:
    VujacicSlovenia wrote:
    I don't understand why people keep talking about Artest's personality.

    Do you people realize that Odom had been much maligned earlier in his career? He's a previous offender of the league's drug policy, and (through the media) carried that stigma of "bad locker room presence" for much of his early career.


    Oh, and this... You have to be kidding me. Lamar smoked weed like probably 90% of NBA players (I'm being facetious here). Proves nothing. And regardless of that, he's had absolutely no problems with that as far as the league is concerned since 2001. That's 7 years for those who are counting. 7 of his 9 years playing pro ball. So... way to drudge up old noise to try to make a point.

    And as far as "bad locker room presence"... I haven't heard of any problems like that with the Lakers. And I only care about what involves the Lakers. Plus it's probably just more drudged up junk like the marijuana thing.

    Artest on the other hand? Demanded a trade that damaged his team, only to recant when his destination was decided, only to recant about THAT when the trade was finally made to go thru. He's been "injured" when he wanted to be. Took games off to promote his RAP CAREER. Been put up for charges of animal cruelty, domestic violence and assault. Served... wow, I'm going to have to get a calculator to add this one up, but I'd say pretty close to ONE HUNDRED (100) games of suspension while playing in the NBA. I'm sure there's more to list, but I think I've made point enough..

    And much of this is still very recent when it comes to RonRon. I'm not drudging up 7-year-old garbage to make a weak point here.


    Lamar Odom was one of the relatively few that have ever been CAUGHT with marijuana... that's all I can go by.

    Most of the games Artest was suspended for stems from ONE incident, ONE horrible night.

    If you want to speak on loyalties, are you aware that Odom severely damaged the Clippers? It had been heavily reported that Odom had told management he wanted to be a Clipper for life, then backed out of it when the Heat offered him a massive contract.

    Does Artest have the more sketchy background? Of course, no one is denying that. But it's not as awful as it's made out to be. The media loves to create pariahs (especially in sports) and Ron Artest was a prime opportunity.


    Yeah, but who is loyal to the clippers? Nobody. It's that clipper curse. Artest is only signed for next season. Would he be a good addition? Of course. But what will they do if he demands more money than what he is making? Lakers can't afford that. Not if they want to resign Bynum, Ariza, and whether they will sign Kobe to another extension. It sounds so easy, right? Just pay the players what they want, right? It's easy for everyone to say, because they are not the ones who are writing the checks. This money is coming out of Buss's own pockets, so I can see him being cautious of that situation.
     
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    Post subject: Re: RE: Different Perspective On Kenny Thomas  PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 02:43 PM PST
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    VujacicSlovenia wrote:
    If you want to speak on loyalties, are you aware that Odom severely damaged the Clippers? It had been heavily reported that Odom had told management he wanted to be a Clipper for life, then backed out of it when the Heat offered him a massive contract.


    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=B rand-Clippers-080710

    Similar situation that just happened. It's not just a curse that seems to screw the Clippers over... they do it to themselves. So I understand the loyalty thing. I'm a Lakers fan first, Clippers fan second. I hate to see them lose Brand when there was a chance for greatness... but they did plenty of it to themselves.

    And Odom didn't damage the Clips the way Artest did the Pacers. He was a cancer to the team. Jermaine O'Neal went on about how he and the team felt betrayed...while Artest was still there and being counted on to produce!! It tanked their Season! It wasn't an off-season free agency move! ARTEST DEMANDED THE TRADE!

    VujacicSlovenia wrote:
    Most of the games Artest was suspended for stems from ONE incident, ONE horrible night.

    Does Artest have the more sketchy background? Of course, no one is denying that. But it's not as awful as it's made out to be. The media loves to create pariahs (especially in sports) and Ron Artest was a prime opportunity.


    Um... yes, it is. Granted it was four years ago, but it was the worst black mark likely in the history of the NBA and maybe even in American sports, and it was incited by RON ARTEST. Be the bigger man, take your millions and walk away from drunk fans.

    Add that to the fact that the antics (that you conveniently ignored) with the dog and the domestic violence/battery/abuse/whatever-you-want-to-call-it was just LAST YEAR and he was suspended AGAIN for that stuff. We don't need that. His background IS as bad as it's made out to be. You're just marginalizing it in a way that you deem fit.

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    Post subject: Re: RE: Different Perspective On Kenny Thomas  PostPosted: Jul 12, 2008 - 03:08 PM PST
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    VujacicSlovenia wrote:
    lakeshow707 wrote:
    LKnight wrote:
    VujacicSlovenia wrote:
    I don't understand why people keep talking about Artest's personality.

    Do you people really like Odom had been much maligned earlier in his career? He's a previous offender of the league's drug policy, and (through the media) carried that stigma of "bad locker room presence" for much for his early career. Phil Jackson has an innate quality of dealing with difficult people. Bryant, Rodman, O'Neal , Jordan (had a gambling problem and once punched Steve Kerr in a practice), Odom. I am 100% confident he can work with Artest. Artest is exactly what this team needs, and he's exactly what I hope this team gets.

    Artest + Thomas > Odom + Turiaf.

    Artest and Thomas make around 15 million, whereas Odom and Turiaf combined will earn around 19 million.


    Thanks VS!
    These guys are acting like we're adding Charles Manson to the team.
    If he was that bad, I'm sure Phil wouldn't have been fined for saying how muched he'd love to coach the guy. You think for a second PJ isn't grinning from ear to ear at the thought of Kobe and Ron teaming up (defensively) in the back court??
    Just about every great team has had a defensive stopper. Ron is the answer to all of that and PLUS the offense that Odom refuses to bring, so tell me again what's the problem??!

    L


    Im kinda tired of having to make this point on every thread on this website. THE PROBLEM WITH THOMAS IS NOT THIS YEAR, BUT NEXT YEAR.Yes Odom is 14 million, but he expired after this year. Thomas is set to earn 8+ million next year as well. With an almost certain extension for AB taking us into the Luxury Tax, even with Artest's contract expiring, Thomas then costs us 16 MILLION!!!! the folow year. That is not ok for a player who does what he does. I know you really want Artest, to the point where you are lying to yourself about Thomas to make it ok. But its not ok and Buss doesn't want to pay that much tax which is why an Odom for Artest and Thomas trade will most likely not happen


    Oh, so you're taking the stance of just letting Odom expire? With nothing in return? Luxury tax kind of comes with the territory of winning championships... unless you have a selfless superstar like Tim Duncan.
    It's basically how Boston just won a title.

    Oh, and can you give a source regarding "Buss doesn't want to pay that much tax."? How do you know that?


    I don't have a direct quote but im pretty sure the fact that we haven't and most likely won't match the offer sheet on Turiaf is proof that Buss doesn't want to go deep into the luxury tax. And yes you let Odom expire and give a large chunk of that to AB (the future of the franchse BTW) and tell Odom he can take less if he wants to remain a laker
     
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