| Author |
Message |
LKnight
|
|
Post subject: Let The Argument Die Already!
 Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 01:24 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 1987
  
votes: 19
Status: Offline
|
|
I just wanted to post this for those who continually enjoy losing sleep trying to prove Kobe being "Greater" than Jordan.
Today I heard the most ridiculous comment, saying "Before Jordan's team gelled together, MJ was just another good shooting guard."
Well here are those earlier seasons you were referring to.
MJ'S FIST 6 SEASONS IN THE LEAGUE
Season 1) 28.2 Pts 5.9 asts 6.5 rbs 2.4 stl 51% Shooting
Season 2) 22.7 Pts 2.9 asts 3.6 rbs 2.1 stl (only played 18 games)
Season 3) 37.1 Pts 4.6 asts 5.2 rbs 2.9 stl 48% Shooting
Season 4) 35.0 Pts 5.9 asts 5.5 rbs 3.2 stl 53% Shooting
Season 5) 32.5 Pts 8.0 asts 8.0 rbs 2.9 stl 53% Shooting
Season 6) 33.6 Pts 6.3 asts 6.9 rbs 2.8 stl 52% Shooting
This discussion is baseless. Look at these damn numbers! It's not even close! Not to mention 10 scoring titles (IN A ROW!)...5 mvp's...6 finals mvp's...Defensive player of the year...3 steals championships...and lead the league in FG% atleast 3 times!
His 5th season alone clowns anything ANY player was EVER capable of putting up outside of Wilt! This is what you call D O M I N A N C E!
Come on folks, let this discussion forever rest in peace!
Now If you wanna have the argument that Kobe is a more "Skilled" player than MJ, so be it...but keep that so called "Greater" debate where it belongs...in the garbage.
GREAT and BEST are two TOTALLY different things!
Let's just enjoy Kobe for who he is...and that's Kobe Bryant. Simple and plain.
L |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
LKnight
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: Let The Argument Die Already!
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 01:26 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 1987
votes: 19
Status: Offline
|
|
And to add to this, you can't in no way compare Jordan's entire career with Kobe's entire career.
Kobe was a sidekick for the majority of his career. He's only been "The Man" on his own team for 4 years.
From the time this team became his is when you compare him to Jordan.
L |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
magicbesteva
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 01:32 AM PST
|
|
Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 106
Status: Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
LKnight
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 01:37 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 1987
votes: 19
Status: Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
magicbesteva
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 01:48 AM PST
|
|
Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 106
Status: Offline
|
|
| the video is ok. but it just tells you that you really can't tell who was better unless they played in the same era. I just think everyone loved jordan because the media hyped him so much. the numbers don't mean nothing cuz kobe came in and played with Shaq and other vets who were trying to get theirs. Jordan was the man on his team and he played 3 years in college, which helped him in the nba. Kobe came straight out of high school almost having an instant impact. but I still think you wouldn't be able to determine the better player unless they played in the same era. when it's all said and done kobe will go down as one of the greatest to have ever played. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
LKnight
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 02:11 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 1987
votes: 19
Status: Offline
|
|
(when it's all said and done kobe will go down as one of the greatest to have ever played.)
Oh no doubt about that. Which is why I feel if you compare Kobe to Jordan, anything in the Shaq era doesn't count. Mainly because Kobe wasn't able to display his full arsenal with Shaq. He didn't get "his own" team until 04 after Shaq was traded. That's when the debate can start if you ask me. What's Kobe's done in his first 4 years on his own team compared to what MJ did in his first 4 years on his own team.
But overall I think Kobe is the more "skilled" one on one individual. (Better range on his jump shot...better footwork.) But outside of that, when a player averages 30 plus points and shoots over 50% that's as dominant as having a dominant center. Defensively that's impossible to stop! And Kobe isn't on that level. Not that he isn't capable of it, he simply chooses not to. These finals were a perfect example. In game 3 Kobe decided to be more efficient by taking 10-15 footers and attack the basket, putting pressure on the defense (Something MJ did nightly) but after that game, he went back to jackin up 3's. Now you think MJ would ever abandon something that's clearly unstoppable, just to start shooting 3's against a defense that's made for you to do just that?? Not a chance. That's why Kobe isn't on that level yet.
L |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
24or8
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 02:25 AM PST
|
|
Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Posts: 111
votes: 1
Status: Offline
|
|
| you cant compare the two at all ,played in different eras with diferent defenses two totally different situations coming in the league its to tough mike is untouchable in the medias eyes as kobe was before the "charges" therefore its not fair to compare the two just two great players |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
LKnight
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 02:30 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 1987
votes: 19
Status: Offline
|
|
Why does every keep bringing up the Media's love affair with Jordan. The media does not win you championships and 10 scoring titles. If "Colorado" never happend, the Kobe vs MJ discussion would still be exactly the same. The only difference is that as far a sports popularity and money goes, Kobe would be up there with Tiger.
Kobe's one of the "most hated" athletes in sports according to the Best Damn poll and he still won the MVP...because he deserved it. You earn everything you get in this sport. Nothing's handed to you. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Cobbler
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 02:52 AM PST
|
|
Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
Posts: 396
votes: 8
Status: Offline
|
|
What a ridiculous thread. You start a thread saying let the argument die by bringing up the argument? That's some sketchy logic there.
You cannot compare eras. Different rules, different competition, different criteria all around.
You point to Jordans "dominance" by stating stats as an argument why he was great before his team jelled. Well, it took Jordan 6 years of being a selfish player to realize that he would never win a championship going down that path. It's taken Kobe 4 to 5 years to realize it himself. Kobe's numbers over the last few years are not so shabby. What did it get him? Same as MJ's, Nada! MJ was as stated the go to guy for his whole career while Kobe had to defer to the big Craptus. Don't discount that Jordans career started directly after a 4 team expansion which diluted the leage talent and inflated those numbers a bit. MJ was most certainly a great player. Not the best in my book, but neither is Kobe. I truly believe Kobe is a more skilled player but MJ was more relentless. Kobe's career is not over so any real comparison is incomplete not to mention impossible to do regardless.
You make a comment that we should just enjoy Kobe for being Kobe yet you started this absurd thread comparing him to MJ yet AGAIN?
Your contradictions are boundless.... |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Cobbler
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 02:54 AM PST
|
|
Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
Posts: 396
votes: 8
Status: Offline
|
|
|
LKnight wrote:
Why does every keep bringing up the Media's love affair with Jordan. The media does not win you championships and 10 scoring titles. If "Colorado" never happend, the Kobe vs MJ discussion would still be exactly the same. The only difference is that as far a sports popularity and money goes, Kobe would be up there with Tiger.
Kobe's one of the "most hated" athletes in sports according to the Best Damn poll and he still won the MVP...because he deserved it. You earn everything you get in this sport. Nothing's handed to you.
They keep bringing it up because you hear all the time about the "MVP's", the defensive player of the years, the 1st team all NBA selections etc etc.
All media awards!
If you truly believe you earn everything and nothing is handed to you in this sport, especially where the media is concerned, then I have a bridge or two to sell you. There are so many examples I am at a loss to know where to start. Barkleys' and Malones' MVP's jump out to begin with. Dirks' and one of Nashs' as well. How can you explain Shaq only getting one MVP? Did MJ really earn that last shot against Utah for the title or were the refs a little giving in not making that last call.
One of the big issues in the league today is the discrepancy in officiating when it comes to star players vs avg players is it not? Is that an earned skill or a gift? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Rookies are now paid millions before ever setting foot on a NBA practice floor. Earned? I think not. |
Last edited by Cobbler on Jul 07, 2008 - 03:05 AM PST; edited 1 time in total
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
LKnight
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 03:04 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 1987
votes: 19
Status: Offline
|
|
I'd love to know where I did comparisons?? I brought up MJ's numbers to put a final stamp on the argument. There isn't a stat on that post that would make you say Kobe's "greater" than Jordan. That was the whole point. And how would me saying Kobe's not greater than MJ take away from me saying enjoy Kobe for who he was?? Was it not Kobe who said the exact same thing to Stephen A. Smith, and yet EVERYTHING about Kobe's game is patterned after Jordan?? So I guess it's reall Kobe's contradictions that are boundless is your opionion.
Now back to Kobe, don't you mean it took Kobe TWELVE season's to realize it himself?? Not 4..you're not even close. And for a person who breaths MJ inside and out and has Magic Johnson standing over his shoulders, you'd think it woulda took him less time to figure that out now wouldn't you?
So once again, the stats speak for themselves. And to come up with some bogus reason like that to why MJ's stats were so called "inflated" is absolutely ridiculous. Put Kobe against those piston's and see what kinda numbers he puts up. He said himself he doens't like attacking the basket because he's getting older, so what the heck was he going to do against the Piston's...Knicks...or Morning's Heat??
The same thing he did against Boston. Shoot 3's.
End of discussion. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Cobbler
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 03:13 AM PST
|
|
Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
Posts: 396
votes: 8
Status: Offline
|
|
The comparison was implied in your thread title not the numbers.
As for your question, Kobe was not the go to guy until 2004. SO i guess you could say it took him 12 years to realize its a team game, but reality is its taken him 4 to 5 years to realize that he cannot do it on his own.
I think maybe you should follow your own advice and just put the issue to rest.
Ohhhhhhh Awwwwwwwwwww.... the ole "End of discussion" whammy! Too funny! |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Cobbler
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 03:22 AM PST
|
|
Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
Posts: 396
votes: 8
Status: Offline
|
|
| The whole who is greater thing between Kobe and Jordan is absurd. I really do not see why it gets brought up so often. I really don't see how anyone can justify MJ being called the greatest ever IMO. How do you qualify it? By position? Championships? Stats? Popularity? Amount of merchandise sold? Awards? It's impossible to do. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
clouducla
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 03:27 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 1561
votes: 1
Status: Offline
|
|
lol...I wanna see MJ go up against DHoward, Amare S, LBJ, Carmelo, AI, Kmart, Bosh (who he scored 81 points on), and many others not the least of which is Shaq!!!
Ya, it is a stupid comparison. Its like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds or Arthur ashe to Rodger Federer or Rafael Nedal... Times change and the sports evolve...players do too. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
LKnight
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 03:32 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 1987
votes: 19
Status: Offline
|
|
|
Cobbler wrote:
LKnight wrote:
Why does every keep bringing up the Media's love affair with Jordan. The media does not win you championships and 10 scoring titles. If "Colorado" never happend, the Kobe vs MJ discussion would still be exactly the same. The only difference is that as far a sports popularity and money goes, Kobe would be up there with Tiger.
Kobe's one of the "most hated" athletes in sports according to the Best Damn poll and he still won the MVP...because he deserved it. You earn everything you get in this sport. Nothing's handed to you.
They keep bringing it up because you hear all the time about the "MVP's", the defensive player of the years, the 1st team all NBA selections etc etc.
All media awards!
If you truly believe you earn everything and nothing is handed to you in this sport, especially where the media is concerned, then I have a bridge or two to sell you. There are so many examples I am at a loss to know where to start. Barkleys' and Malones' MVP's jump out to begin with. Dirks' and one of Nashs' as well. How can you explain Shaq only getting one MVP? Did MJ really earn that last shot against Utah for the title or were the refs a little giving in not making that last call.
One of the big issues in the league today is the discrepancy in officiating when it comes to star players vs avg players is it not? Is that an earned skill or a gift? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Rookies are now paid millions before ever setting foot on a NBA practice floor. Earned? I think not.
Sure Cobbler, I'd love to answer that for you....
EVERY SINGLE ONE of those player you mentioned for MVP was the #1 seed in his conference. Point..Blank...Period.
No conspiracy. Nothing to research or dig up for excuses.
EVERY SINGLE one of those MVPs lead his team to the number one seed in his conference. Period.
Which is why Kobe won it this year...Dirk won it last year....Nash...Malone....Barkley...and is why Shaq only won one. That was when we were of course...had the number one seed.
Now out of all of those MVP's, and going off their rule of "number one seed gets MVP" the ONLY one I have a problem with is Nash's second one, being that they lead their division but weren't the top seed. (That's the ONLY exception.) So no folks, Kobe wasn't "robbed" that year as we all have cried. Are you really expect him to win MVP with 45 wins, being THIRD in his division AND not to mention a SEVENTH SEED??!!!
Are you that dilusional?! But you argument was "His stats should have won it." Well if that was the case, I'm sure EVERYONE here would have been pissed as hell if Lebron was given the MVP this year because of "his stats".
Jordan didn't win it when he averaged 37 points...he didn't even win it when he averaged 32 pts 8rbs 8asts....
But when did MJ win it?? He won it the SAME way Kobe did...by leading his team to THE NUMBER ONE SEED IN THE CONFERENCE. PERIOD.
L |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Cobbler
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 03:34 AM PST
|
|
Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
Posts: 396
votes: 8
Status: Offline
|
|
The pistons? The Knicks? Mornings Heat?
Yeah... some powerhouses there. First off. The bad boy pistons chewed up MJ every year. Yeah... those fors 6 years you talk about... the Pistons owned them. When they and the lakers aged and the bulls obtained some quality support players, only then did they start winning. The Knicks? Patrick, Im not even in the top 10 centers of all time Ewing? Mornings' Heat? See previous sentence about Patrick. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
LKnight
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 03:36 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 1987
votes: 19
Status: Offline
|
|
|
Cobbler wrote:
The whole who is greater thing between Kobe and Jordan is absurd. I really do not see why it gets brought up so often. I really don't see how anyone can justify MJ being called the greatest ever IMO. How do you qualify it? By position? Championships? Stats? Popularity? Amount of merchandise sold? Awards? It's impossible to do.
Good point you bring up...
If you ask me, no one compared to Magic Johnson...not Jordan...not nobody. Magic could beat you if he let you pick the other 4 players on his team. Although Jordan has 6 rings, Magic was in the finals NINE out of THIRTEEN seasons!! Now that to me is what you call DOMINANCE. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
clouducla
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 03:39 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 1561
votes: 1
Status: Offline
|
|
|
LKnight wrote:
Cobbler wrote:
The whole who is greater thing between Kobe and Jordan is absurd. I really do not see why it gets brought up so often. I really don't see how anyone can justify MJ being called the greatest ever IMO. How do you qualify it? By position? Championships? Stats? Popularity? Amount of merchandise sold? Awards? It's impossible to do.
Good point you bring up...
If you ask me, no one compared to Magic Johnson...not Jordan...not nobody. Magic could beat you if he let you pick the other 4 players on his team. Although Jordan has 6 rings, Magic was in the finals NINE out of THIRTEEN seasons!! Now that to me is what you call DOMINANCE.
now u may be talking some sense...Magic was something else. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Cobbler
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 03:41 AM PST
|
|
Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
Posts: 396
votes: 8
Status: Offline
|
|
My opinions....
Big men: Wilt by a landslide
Guards: Nobody compared to Oscar. Not Kobe, MJ, or even Magic
Titles: No brainer... Russel
Stats: Again... Wilt for big men, Oscar for guards
Popularity: MJ ( and he gets the media darling comments because he was the first real huge star in the information age of nikedom)
Merchandise sold... Stern *grin* |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
LKnight
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 - 03:42 AM PST
|
|
Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 1987
votes: 19
Status: Offline
|
|
|
Cobbler wrote:
The pistons? The Knicks? Mornings Heat?
Yeah... some powerhouses there. First off. The bad boy pistons chewed up MJ every year. Yeah... those fors 6 years you talk about... the Pistons owned them. When they and the lakers aged and the bulls obtained some quality support players, only then did they start winning. The Knicks? Patrick, Im not even in the top 10 centers of all time Ewing? Mornings' Heat? See previous sentence about Patrick.
So first you quote "The Pistons" and saying "Some Power House", then go on to describe how dominant they were. You mean to tell me Kobe woulda simply dominanted them?? That's the point your making with this.
So what will be the debate about Kobe getting past Phoenix??
(When they and the lakers aged and the bulls (Lakers) obtained some quality support players, only then did they start winning).
What the hell is your point?! I'm seriously clueless...
Is your point based on MJ's competition vs. Kobe's competiton? Is that where your going?? |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Sub-Forum
