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SPQR
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Post subject: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
 Posted: May 10, 2008 - 02:24 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 284
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All good things must come to an end...as did the Lakers undefeated playoff skien last night. It wasn't really unexpected. Because of our rebounding and defensive limitations we are not a super team and beating a tough, well coached team three in a row is very difficult especially when the third game is on their floor, just ask Detroit and New Orleans. Kobe yelling at Luke Walton in his terrible turnover at the end of the game was a pretty much a metaphor for the four quarters.
If one wants to examine the causes of the loss on the floor, they were pretty self evident:
The turnovers were the main culprit. When you give the ball up against a quality team like the Jazz, your chances of winning drop exponentially with each one. Once you reach a certain threshold its just about over. Maybe it was the crowd, maybe they were just due for bad game, maybe the Jazz deserve alot of the credit to for not being the Denver Nuggets and showing they are a good team.
Luke and Jordan missing layups was also a killer in this close game. Sometimes Lukes litany of missed shots does not hurt, but in games like this it sure can kill you. I often marvel at how a guy who's 6 foot 8 can miss so many. Jordan looks completly out of sinc and lost. You wonder what happened to the very competant and effective player we watched all year. He is only in his second year so unfortunatly the fact is he may just not be ready for this big stage at the present time of his career. I have no doubt he will improve next year. If Luke and Jordan make their layups, the Lakers win.
Pau and Rony rebounding like grandmothers at an Arthritic convention. Seven foot center Pau gets 6 and Mr. "Energy" Rony gets one whole rebound while they watch Carlos Boozer get boards like a kid getting christmas candy. Pau is a terrific addition to the team. We wouldn't be here if we had not made the trade. But he's no Andrew Bynum. Drew will be twice the asset at center Pau is if he ever heals from his injury completly. Pau brings passing and scoring and intellegence to the floor but even with a ring at stake, you can see he is not willing to sacrifice his body in a rebounding torture test to help with this Laker deficiency. Sometimes you have to force youself do things your mind and body don't normaly do to win that ring. At his height with his athleticism he must do more on the boards. If he gets 14 boards instead of six, we probably win.
Rony is a joke when it comes to rebounding. The one he got must have come right to him. His reputation as an "energy" player is a bit of scam. He yells alot, and his shot blocking is nice and often timely, but if he were really an energy player, he would be crashing the boards like mad. When you watch him, he frequantly just stands there, and lets other people go for rebounds, or when he does, he's late to the ball. He has done this all year. Rony is not counted on for offense so he must help this team in other ways, and rebounding should be his priority. For a guy that big and with that much hops, what he does on the boards is pathetic. You wonder if he said, "Nice rebound", to Boozer every time he got another one. This has gone on all year. As much as I like Rony, a forward who is interested in using his "energy" for rebounding would be a much better asset to this team. If Rony gets 8 boards instead of (GAG) one, we probably win.
All this being said, the Lakers played their worst game of the playoffs, in one of the most difficult places to win in the NBA against a very solid team and just lost by five points. If I were a Jazz fan I would not be feeling very comfortable with the measure of that win. It does not bode well for the Utah. More rebounding by Rony and Pau, better and smarter passing and a few less missed layups and things should break our way again...even if we have to return to LA to do it. The bigger question is: will our deficiencies stop us from winning the title as we face more accomplished teams up the road? |
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The Lakers don't win championships...They have dynasties!!
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Apogeal1
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Post subject: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 02:28 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Los Angeles
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| I believe Kobe was yelling at the Refs for a foul. Otherwise, yeah, they really need to get after it in the physical play department. Or, at least paly through the physical play and the non-calls. |
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jamills21
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Post subject: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 02:35 PM PST
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Topbuzz Newbie
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
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"Rony is a joke when it comes to rebounding. The one he got must have come right to him. His reputation as an "energy" player is a bit of scam. He yells alot, and his shot blocking is nice and often timely, but if he were really an energy player, he would be crashing the boards like mad."
Its hard to knock Rony at any point right now, especially with his "energy" coming off the bench. The man lost alot of weight during his illness and i dont feel he is still 100%. Jordan Farmar on the other hand needs to step it way up. |
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SPQR
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Post subject: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 02:41 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 284
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votes: 22
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Jamills,
Its not hard to knock Rony. He's been doing this all year. It's time he is held accountable for a huge defeciency in his game that is hurting this team. Like I said, he's not counted on for scoring at this stage of his career. All we need from him is rebounding to help us. His rebounding is abysmal and always has been. Sorry, no more free passes for Rony. |
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The Lakers don't win championships...They have dynasties!!
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kb24_4life
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Post subject: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 02:49 PM PST
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Laker GM
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Joined: Nov 28, 2007
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| I know who can fix all of this...the rebounding, the defense, the physical play...Andrew Bynum...too bad he most likely won't be back this year...so it's up to Pau to start rebounding better and the other bigs to come in and get ready to get some boards...Odom has been a consistent rebounder this whole time, now it's time for Gasol to get some boards... |
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Yeah, it's a new ballgame now fella...I got guns now, I aint going into the shootout with butter knives no more...I got guns now, now we gonna see what's up..."
-Kobe Bryant
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SPQR
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Post subject: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 03:07 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 284
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votes: 22
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kb24 4life,
Drew would fix this. Kobe said in an interview last week that "We will be much better next year with Drew." Kobe has seen enough of Drew to know what he brings to the table and how much better he will still get. Pau is good player with obvious limitations. Hes really a finesse forward, not a center. Drew is going to be a dominant physical center and one of the best players in the league.. There is no comparison about which of these two players will have a much more positive impact on the Lakers.
Unfortunatly, we are going to hear about Drew being scheduled for surgery long before he comes back to help us this year. |
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The Lakers don't win championships...They have dynasties!!
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PinoyLakerFan24-7
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Post subject: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 04:11 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jan 15, 2007
Posts: 1749
Location: Covina, CALI
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Good points, SPQR. But you know, the rebounding as of right now in this series is not nearly as big of an issue as everything else we have been doing wrong. The Jazz only beat us by 3 on the boards, and that's including Boozer's 20 rebounds.
Like you said the turnovers are the main reason why we lost the game. As the Lakers give up the ball 5 times in the first few minutes of the 1st, I thought to myself, "this is gonna be a LONG night". And this is where Pau is to be criticized. By getting stripped so damn much, the Jazz have him figured out; he's become too predictable with his post-up moves. Thus, he now needs to not only watch out for double teams, but he also needs to be more aggressive. Being so docile and looking to pass out of double teams, the Jazz have managed to exploit this weakness, stripping the ball out of his hands and intercepting his passes. The best thing for him to do, I think, is to take it to the hole more often, draw fouls, and take more high percentage looks.
As for Jordan, he's just a mess right now. All of his weaknesses stem from his decision making and a few mental lapses. Physically he has all the tools to be a lockdown defender, a lights-out shooter, a gifted passer, and an aggressive slasher. He just needs to get that swagger back in his step. Like the old saying goes, "it's all in the head" for J-Farm. |
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--THE LAKERS' FANTASTIC FOUR--
Kobe Bryant aka The Black Mamba
Pau Gasol aka The Spanish Fly
Andrew Bynum aka The Prodigy
Lamar Odom aka The Goods
Coming soon to an arena near you!
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lakers4life21
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Post subject: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 04:22 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Aug 30, 2007
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SPQR wrote:
Jamills,
Its not hard to knock Rony. He's been doing this all year. It's time he is held accountable for a huge defeciency in his game that is hurting this team. Like I said, he's not counted on for scoring at this stage of his career. All we need from him is rebounding to help us. His rebounding is abysmal and always has been. Sorry, no more free passes for Rony.
Ronny lost 11 pounds!!!! You expect one of his first games back to be a monster on boards! Give him a brek! Oh and please spell his name right if you wanna knock on him. |
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sneakerhead24
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 04:28 PM PST
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Laker GM
Joined: May 05, 2007 Age: 17
Posts: 2678
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| cmon you guys.. jsut calm down.. one game is one game... the lakers will learn from their mistakes |
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SPQR
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 04:53 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 284
Location: Pennsylvania
votes: 22
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Lakers4life21,
I guess you didn't read my whole post. Let me try again: Ronny has done this all year. Not just this game. Not just since he lost 11 pounds. All year. Hope that clears it up some. No more passes for Mr. "Energy" from me, no matter how likable he is or how much fans like him. If asking him to rebound(since we dont ask him to score) is too much, then its time to look for a better forward-center in the near future. Sorry about leaving out the other "N" in his name. I guess like a Ronny rebound, I just missed it.
Pinoy,
Very good points about Pau. He is turning the ball over and looks almost panicked at times. You are also right about his agression. Hes not a thick guy but is over seven feet and athletic. Go to the hole more with bad intentions. He just has to be more aggressive in his approach. The Jazz are a physical, aggressive team. They will prey on you if you let them dictate to you. Rebounding was tertiary to turnovers in this loss, but even though we were almost even with them on the boards, if Ronny and/or Pau did a better job we could have won. It's just a point im making. In the long run, it won't stop us from winning this series. But I can't say it won't stop us from losing to New Orleans, San Antonio or Boston. In fact this game resembled our two games with Boston, only the Celts are a much better team than the Jazz.
Sneakerhead,
I agree with you completely. It's one game and as i said in my post, I have no doubt we will win this series. I just stated some observations on the loss. Areas of concern that can cost us a title down the road this year if not addressed. |
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The Lakers don't win championships...They have dynasties!!
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gemfow
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 05:27 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 1735
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| SPQR - I agree with you about Ronny, it is something that frustrates me, but not as much as him being in position for a layup and kicking it all the way out for a 3 point shot. The difference between Drew, Ronny and Pau is that Drew goes after almost every rebound, not just the ones that come in front of him. Lamar and Drew were are rebounders and it's ironic but that's how Drew got injured, going for a rebound against Lamar pretty much. |
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"It made me feel like I should throw mine away." - Larry Bird, upon hearing that Kobe hadn't earned the MVP trophy until this year.
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SPQR
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review.
Posted: May 11, 2008 - 01:02 AM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 284
Location: Pennsylvania
votes: 22
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gemfow,
Thats correct. Drew did get hurt going for a rebound, something that was fast becomming a trademark with him. Rebounding is hard to do both physically and mentally, thats why alot of players don't want to it. The problem with the Lakers is we have three big men who get lots of minutes who just dont want to go do that dirty work: Pau, Ronny and Vlad. If we don't win the championship this year, I have a feeling it will be because of this exact problem. I don't mean to make Ronny a whipping boy because like most people, I can't help but like him and hope he becomes good enough to be an intregal part of this team for a long time. But the time when Pau and Vald get ample critisism for their lack of rebounding and Ronny gets to skate is over with me. The dude is 6 foot 10, 245lbs and at least when he wants to block a shot he leaps practically out of the building, yet when hes near a rebound it seems like he has lead in his legs and he barely moves. Ronny passing out when he has a layup is frustrating as well. Hopefully when he becomes more comfortable with the team and his own postion in it and his abilities he will learn to take these shots instead of deferring to someone else. |
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The Lakers don't win championships...They have dynasties!!
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yonglaker
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review
Posted: May 11, 2008 - 01:57 AM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Posts: 283
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SPQR wrote:
gemfow,
Thats correct. Drew did get hurt going for a rebound, something that was fast becomming a trademark with him. Rebounding is hard to do both physically and mentally, thats why alot of players don't want to it. The problem with the Lakers is we have three big men who get lots of minutes who just dont want to go do that dirty work: Pau, Ronny and Vlad. If we don't win the championship this year, I have a feeling it will be because of this exact problem. I don't mean to make Ronny a whipping boy because like most people, I can't help but like him and hope he becomes good enough to be an intregal part of this team for a long time. But the time when Pau and Vald get ample critisism for their lack of rebounding and Ronny gets to skate is over with me. The dude is 6 foot 10, 245lbs and at least when he wants to block a shot he leaps practically out of the building, yet when hes near a rebound it seems like he has lead in his legs and he barely moves. Ronny passing out when he has a layup is frustrating as well. Hopefully when he becomes more comfortable with the team and his own postion in it and his abilities he will learn to take these shots instead of deferring to someone else.
to say that ronnie doesnt go after rebounds is just plain wrong. ronnie hutles and tries to go after rebounds every time he can, the problem is the he gets shoved in the back for every rebound but he never complains. Ronnie is always hustling and sacraficing his body every play there is no one that hustles more than ronnie. Yea he had 0 boards last game but it was not due to lack of effort he made some amazing blocks on D Will when his teammate got beat and even when one of those blocks got called for a foul he never complains. Ronnie got more heart than any other laker, whatever he lacks in talent he more than makes it up with his heart. Ronnie IS already an integral part of the team no one can replace him he is the team mascot/energy player all rolled into one. |
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LAKERZ_DYNASTY101
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a review
Posted: May 11, 2008 - 03:14 AM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 1167
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yonglaker wrote:
SPQR wrote:
gemfow,
Thats correct. Drew did get hurt going for a rebound, something that was fast becomming a trademark with him. Rebounding is hard to do both physically and mentally, thats why alot of players don't want to it. The problem with the Lakers is we have three big men who get lots of minutes who just dont want to go do that dirty work: Pau, Ronny and Vlad. If we don't win the championship this year, I have a feeling it will be because of this exact problem. I don't mean to make Ronny a whipping boy because like most people, I can't help but like him and hope he becomes good enough to be an intregal part of this team for a long time. But the time when Pau and Vald get ample critisism for their lack of rebounding and Ronny gets to skate is over with me. The dude is 6 foot 10, 245lbs and at least when he wants to block a shot he leaps practically out of the building, yet when hes near a rebound it seems like he has lead in his legs and he barely moves. Ronny passing out when he has a layup is frustrating as well. Hopefully when he becomes more comfortable with the team and his own postion in it and his abilities he will learn to take these shots instead of deferring to someone else.
to say that ronnie doesnt go after rebounds is just plain wrong. ronnie hutles and tries to go after rebounds every time he can, the problem is the he gets shoved in the back for every rebound but he never complains. Ronnie is always hustling and sacraficing his body every play there is no one that hustles more than ronnie. Yea he had 0 boards last game but it was not due to lack of effort he made some amazing blocks on D Will when his teammate got beat and even when one of those blocks got called for a foul he never complains. Ronnie got more heart than any other laker, whatever he lacks in talent he more than makes it up with his heart. Ronnie IS already an integral part of the team no one can replace him he is the team mascot/energy player all rolled into one.
WOW VERY VERY NICELY SAID...I agree with every word exept id like to add that both Alot of our guys have heart(jus sayin) but ronny not only has the most heart on our team...but probobly in the league |
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Apogeal1
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...a re
Posted: May 11, 2008 - 03:37 AM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
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| Hey! Kwame is gone and Walton's playing better these days. Lets face it: We have to beat on somebody! |
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yonglaker
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpected...
Posted: May 11, 2008 - 04:53 AM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Posts: 283
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Apogeal1 wrote:
Hey! Kwame is gone and Walton's playing better these days. Lets face it: We have to beat on somebody!
what about radman? he is overpaid and got no heart. If his shot aint falling he should at least get some rebounds he is 6'10 like 235 lbs. I never see him hustling all he can do is shoot and when his shot aint falling he disappears. |
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Apogeal1
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpecte
Posted: May 11, 2008 - 02:59 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 415
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| Streaky is Radmanovich's middle name. I have the same criticism of him that Worthy had of Bynum: Put together a series of games, 9 - 12 say, and we'll know he's arrived. So far, you can't say when he show up big, or when he'll just be out there. But when he does, I'm glad he's on the team. |
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SPQR
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: First playoff loss not unexpecte
Posted: May 11, 2008 - 08:50 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
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Sorry guys,
But to say Ronny doesn't get boards because he is getting pushed in the back is just not realistic. So you guys are saying he gets pushed in the back all year long? Some strange phenomenom unique to Ronny and not noticed by the officials? Thats just not realistic. I like Ronny too, and its not easy to critisize him but the truth is the truth. He's 6 foot 10 and 245lbs and rebounds like he's 6 foot 3, 195lbs. Your excuse that he's being pushed in the back is um rather lame to be honest. I've watched Ronny all year. He is not a good rebounder. He has neither the will or inclination to attack the boards. Not trying to offend, but lets try to keep this on realistic plane if we want to discuss it. The fact that this is all the defense you can muster for Ronny on this topics tells you all you really need to know about his rebounding.
It doesn't take alot of heart to scream and yell and cheerlead. Tell me, what exactly is it that makes you think Ronny has more heart than anyone in the NBA? Give me concrete, legitimate quantifiable evidence by his performance. Tell me, what does he do, that makes his heart so overwhelming? You can't just say it. Tell why this is so.
It takes lots of heart to go in the post, push and shove, establish postion, block out and jump up again and again somtimes to get that board. And then do this play after play, game after game all year long. Thats a true measure of heart. This is real quantifiable heart that you can see with results, and a kind Ronny has yet to show. |
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The Lakers don't win championships...They have dynasties!!
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