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SPQR
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Post subject: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
 Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 11:08 AM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 450
Location: Pennsylvania
  
votes: 28
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Interesting to watch the Sun's "era" come to an end not with a bang but a whimper. The Shaq trade turned out to be a bust. You can't turn back the clock and Shaq is just an old center now, not the old Shaq.
Perhaps the play of Steve Nash was most interesting. The former MVP did not play like one. Watching him dribble around like a rookie in the overtime game without getting a shot off or passing it out was really amazing. It was the play one expects from a raw, callow player not the two time MVP and one of the smartest players in the league. Then seeing him turn the ball over three times with the game on the line last night was even more troubling if you are a Phoenix fan. You have to wonder if he is feeling the years and miles on his body. Or perhaps the pressure of losing so many big series in the playoffs just got to be too much...or maybe a combination of both. Wonder how the media would have reacted if Kobe had pulled those gaffs in such crucial times. Would they say behind closed doors, "a smart player like Nash would never make those mistakes. Thats why hes the MVP...blah blah blah."
Amare Staudimire said hes tired of losing to the Spurs and eventually they will break through them. This comment shows he is not yet fully cognizant of the change already taking place in the West. If he thinks the Spurs are their problem, wait till he gets a taste of the Kobe-Lamar-Drew-Gasol team next year. You would think with how Drew, who isn't half the player he will be someday, dominated him this year, he would have a clearer picture of whats going on. When the Suns finish 15 games or more behind us next year in the Pacific he will have a much better understanding that the Spurs are no longer the major problem for them. Amazing how much difference a year makes if you think about the power dynamics of the west last year at this time.
Next year its going to be Portland, LA and New Orleans taking the lead. The Spurs will still be there, but Duncan will be 33 and they better not lose to us this year, because next year and for many years after the Lakers will be the royalty in the NBA. San Antonio had a great great run, but the hourglass is running out on them as well. They won't be able to compete with our full team next year. I know its still a while off, but I have to admit my mind frequantly turns to the probable Lakers-Spurs Western finals matchup. It would be so very sweet to deny our old rivals their last chance for a ring this year. I have no doubt with Drew they would not extend us more than six this year, but even without him I am not afraid of the matchup. We are younger and fresher and playing great ball, and we have the best closer and player in the league who is on a mission. The thought of playing the champs is very enticing.
Also can't wait for the Spurs-New Orleans series. New Orleans just didn't beat the Mavs, they killed them. Will be interesting to see how the Spurs handle this very cocky and aggressive team. Even though they have no experience in the Wests crucible playoff test, you can tell they have much more confidence than the jaded and psychologically bruised Suns.
Cris Paul is the most unstoppable and effective gaurd force this side of Kobe Bryant. Watching him try to put the "He can't gaurd me" moves on Tony Parker will be worth the price of admission. Incidentally, Paul will look just great leading our offense with Drew after Kobe retires..hehe. One can hope..right? |
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The Lakers don't win championships...They have dynasties!!
Last edited by SPQR on Apr 30, 2008 - 12:54 PM PST; edited 2 times in total
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GQ
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Post subject: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 11:41 AM PST
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Topbuzz Newbie
Joined: Feb 12, 2008
Posts: 13
votes: 6
Status: Offline
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| As long as these players stick to basketball they will be ok. Look at all these guys ... Agent 0 ... all he does is blog and talk and now look at him? He sucks. Look at D-Wade ... dumb T-mobile commerials and wannabe model (ugly as$) ... hurt, and sucks now. Look at Steve Nash ... no more game, just into making commerials and being a director/producer ... sucks now! I think it is ginx. Look at Grant Hill, all those commerials at the beginning and now career down the drain. The most crap player of all is Starbury, all those shoes and businessman wannabe ... look at him now .. distracted and sucks. Just stick to basketball!! |
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jbully314
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Post subject: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 12:53 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 17, 2007 Age: 34
Posts: 1292
votes: 12
Status: Offline
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| Nice post SPQR. You are a talented writer. Repped. |
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SPQR
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Post subject: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 01:02 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 450
Location: Pennsylvania
votes: 28
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Thanks Jbully,
This is a great forum to express ideas. A lot more knowledgabe fans here than on other sites and not the dog eat dog insults, contention or thought police. I got booted off a site last year because they were all on the trade Drew for Kidd and Garnette bandwagon and I just did not go along with the program. I also had no qualms about calling Kobe out when he was wrong on things. This was a major no-no. On that site, if you expressed disenting opinions long enough and hard enough it was syanara baby. |
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The Lakers don't win championships...They have dynasties!!
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Axle
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Post subject: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 01:22 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 1708
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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| I don't know if Kobe was wrong on the things you are talking about and why you got booted out, but I personally think that if Kobe wouldn't of stood up to management the Lakers probably would never have gone after Pau Gasol. When you are the leader of a group of people and you see that the team is not improving, you have to make challenges to management. If they are not going to try and improve a situation, then I feel Kobe felt he was wasting his time and energy with a corportion that would not make a move. By doing what he done, knowing that he had a veto power in his contract it gave him the power to make such a move. It opened some eyes in the front office. I call it a genious move and gustsy. I know that a lot of Laker fans didn't understand his move and were unhappy with him challenging management, but that is what it takes sometimes to get the wheels moving. |
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Zee
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Post subject: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 01:51 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Aug 15, 2007
Posts: 400
votes: 3
Status: Offline
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Quote:
Nice post SPQR. You are a talented writer. Repped.
Great JOB! with the article, nice to see an original well written article. Non of that copy and paste bull. |
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80s-baby
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Post subject: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 02:06 PM PST
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Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Jan 31, 2008 Age: 25
Posts: 69
votes: 4
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| I agree nice post but a little harsh on Nash he is a Great point guard still and diaw turned it over 1 of the 3 times, i think shaqs immobility hurts them Nash needs players constantly moving for their offense to work. But your right the clock is winding down for them. |
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I Crap Green & White
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kevinbutts06
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Post subject: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 02:07 PM PST
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Casual Laker Fan
Joined: Feb 19, 2008
Posts: 89
Status: Offline
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| Very nice article, but I would also put Utah in the top 4 contenders next year, especially if they get a big string center, and don't sleep on the Kings making a playoff run either |
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cuckooroller
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Post subject: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 02:23 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Age: 58
Posts: 2289
Location: Italy
votes: 22
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SPQR wrote:
Thanks Jbully,
This is a great forum to express ideas. A lot more knowledgabe fans here than on other sites and not the dog eat dog insults, contention or thought police. I got booted off a site last year because they were all on the trade Drew for Kidd and Garnette bandwagon and I just did not go along with the program. I also had no qualms about calling Kobe out when he was wrong on things. This was a major no-no. On that site, if you expressed disenting opinions long enough and hard enough it was syanara baby.
I agree. I did peruse the postings of the other huge Laker site - ground.net I think it is called. My sense was that though they boasted a lot more members than this site, that just about everything (comments, etc.) was rather teeny-bopper if you get my gist! I get rather bored reading comments unless I can discern every once in a while, that some thought has been given to what is being said. Stuff like - Go Lakers; We goin kill ya'; you guys, and your team suck, etc., just does not do it for me. There seem to be more intelligent posters, even if fewer members, on this Lakers forum - Thank God!! 
By the way, what is with the Thylacine? I spent about two weeks, twenty years ago, tramping around Tasmania illuding myself that I could be the "great rediscoverer", what a laugh! |
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Steve
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SPQR
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 02:57 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 450
Location: Pennsylvania
votes: 28
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Axle,
There were alot of issues regarding Kobe. It started with alot of jealousy fans on that site felt with the publicity Lebron James was getting. One dude posted a Lafraud James thread dealing with how he was a fraud in his personal life.
His points were totally ridiculous but every Kobe Shrine head on there was giving dittos. This thread was started only because Kobes fans were threated because Lebron was obviously the player who was going to challenge Kobe as the best player in the league. I pointed out several things about Kobe, such as his frequant religous talk(that seemed to fade away after his rape problems ended i noticed. Im not religous) while he was cheating on his wife at the same time. How when he got busted for the alleged rape he said, "I should have just paid her like Shaq does." Well we all know sports stars live on a different planet when it comes to sex and money, but the point was he could have said, "I should have paid her off like other players do." He just had to throw Shaqs name in there knowing full well that quote woud get out and cause Shaq trouble at home.
The point wasn't wether Shaq was cheating: it was Kobe just had to get his name out there. Not a very nice thing to do to a teamate...or anyone else for that matter.
I also took huge issue with his trade Drew demands. Kobe very convienently forgot that once he was an 18 year old project who needed alot of learning and that Shaq could have very easily said, "Trade this dude, I want to win now." Shaq at that time had no rings. Kobe already had three so its not like time was running out and he had none. But of course, anyone who knows Kobes ego makes it impairative to him that he win a post Shaq ring-even to the point that he was perfectly willing to destory the future of this franchise to get it with Kidd or Garnett.
To be selfish in private about Drew with Mitch was on thing, but to castigate him to a fan vid where he knew all his loyal fans would jump on the trade Drew bandwagon was pathetic and mean.
My end point was that Lebron had done absolutely nothing to be considered a fraud in his life, while Kobe had.
I also stated that because of their age differences, no general manager in the league would not trade Kobe for Lebron. It's no slam on Kobe, just reality. Just like no GM would trade Kobe for Duncan. He's just too old to get equal value with Kobe.
I am well aware how much athletic worship permeats this society. Sometimes its scary to watch. Because Kobe is such a phenominal athlete lots of his fans think he can do no wrong and just freak if you show them their heros feet of clay. I'm not just singling out Kobe, this applies to fans affections for all great athletes.
I had no problems with Kobe wanting to be traded. It was well within his rights if he felt the Lakers were not going anywhere in the near future. I had huge problems with a player who had three rings not extending the same courtesy to Drew that Shaq extended to him a decade earlier. You want traded..fine. You want to destory a franchises future because you want a post Shaq ring...forget it!! It speaks volumes about whats important to Kobe no matter how his fans try to defend or rationalize it.
Other issues were they wanted to trade Farmar and Sasaha, calling them bums.. blah blah blah. I've watched alot of sports, and one thing ive learned is you have to give young players time. Sasha, Farmar and Drew all showed athletic talent from the get go. You had to give each at least four years to show if they would mature into the players they could. For some reason the guys running that sight felt if you didnt play well right away, you sucked. I found this unrealistic to say the least.
To finish on Kobe, he is the second greatest shooting guard of all time. He may yet become known as the best. He is my second favorite Laker of all time behind Magic Johnson. But i also feel from observing him over the years, he is not the nicest person in the world...but i dont care. Hes an athlete i love to watch, not my neighbor or friend.
Should be interesting to see what type of responses this gets, lol. |
_________________
The Lakers don't win championships...They have dynasties!!
Last edited by SPQR on Apr 30, 2008 - 04:24 PM PST; edited 2 times in total
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Aydo
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 03:43 PM PST
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Topbuzz Newbie
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 35
Status: Offline
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| your right axle, but you want to say that kobe is your second favorite laker after magic. lets not forget what magic did also, you dont get HIV positive for going to the grocery store to buy goods. so in essence it shows lack of responsibility and committment to your team to end your carrer at 9 years. i love magic, specially after he played center in the finals that one year, when kareem got injured. People tend to give magic or many other players a break. But for some reason kobe is the worst. we dont talk about how selfish shaq is 20 mollion dollar role player.And refused to to take a paycut, and destroyed the heat organization single handedly, and suns. |
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Voulnet
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 03:43 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
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Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 447
votes: 3
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Hey, that's one great well-thought out and written article. Keep them coming.
As for the Suns, I'm sure EVERY Suns player is thinking to himself "Is Shaq gonna badmouth me after he leaves like he did to most of his previous teammates?"
People think Shaq is a good locker room character, well only if he is happy and smiling. Anything else and we already have experience on what he'd be like.
Good God, Shaq deserves the embarrassment. He already got free passes for too much ******** in his career, but those last two playoffs kickouts seem nice and fitting to his character. |
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SPQR
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 04:20 PM PST
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Serious Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 450
Location: Pennsylvania
votes: 28
Status: Offline
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Ayodo,
But you forget, im not making excuses for Magics callous indescretions like Kobes fans did for him. Thats the difference. I understand these people are all too human, usually with huge egos and many times not the nicest people around. I dont pretend they are perfect like so many fans do.
Shaq was under no obligation to take a pay cut when he could get his money from someone. An athletes life is short. If they want to cash in completly then more power to them. I will bet that Kobe wont take a pay cut to keep Drew, Gasol, Lamar and company here either. And i wont blame him one bit. |
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The Lakers don't win championships...They have dynasties!!
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gemfow
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 04:56 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 2280
Location: Maryland
votes: 27
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Without a doubt Nash deserves some of the harsh criticisms that you showered him with. I'm not referring to the overdribbling which is something he has done from time to time, but no one ever notices things like that when you're winning. I'm referring to his lack of defense, to see TP come down one on one and blow by him with no resistance what so ever was ridiculous. In today's game I know it's not all on one person, but Nash looked terrible defensively. The Suns trading Marion exposed Nash's main weakness........defense. Instead of Marion guarding positions 1-4 like he can and allowing Nash to play spot up shooters and slide under people for charges, Nash was forced to play against other good offensive players.
If you switch Nash and Kidd, then those teams would have competed a little bit harder. I never felt that Kidd was the correct fit for Dallas, they don't run enough. Nash in Phoenix with a team full of non-defenders in key positions exposes him, so Kidd would have been better,. Let us know how the fishing comes along Dallas and and Phoenix. |
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"It made me feel like I should throw mine away." - Larry Bird, upon hearing that Kobe hadn't earned the MVP trophy until this year.
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cuckooroller
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 04:58 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Age: 58
Posts: 2289
Location: Italy
votes: 22
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Yes, there is no need to make excuses when they make human mistakes. I still remember the sick feeling to my stomach, as do all Laker fans at that time, when it was first announced the Magic had HIV. At first it was not clear if this would have meant that his career was at an end.
As far as Shaq, no there is certainly no obligation that any of these players take a pay cut. However, in the case of Shaq I still remember when he was with Los Angeles, and what a disruptive influence that he was in particular the last couple of years. For being paid all of that guaranteed money, he just had an absolutely lousy work ethic. Who knows how much of the time that he spent out for "injury" first with L.A., and then with Miami, was just a sham - I imagine most of it... |
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Steve
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griZZly64
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Post subject: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 05:39 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jun 28, 2007 Age: 21
Posts: 1305
Location: Camarillo, CA
votes: 13
Status: Offline
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GQ wrote:
As long as these players stick to basketball they will be ok. Look at all these guys ... Agent 0 ... all he does is blog and talk and now look at him? He sucks. Look at D-Wade ... dumb T-mobile commerials and wannabe model (ugly as$) ... hurt, and sucks now. Look at Steve Nash ... no more game, just into making commerials and being a director/producer ... sucks now! I think it is ginx. Look at Grant Hill, all those commerials at the beginning and now career down the drain. The most crap player of all is Starbury, all those shoes and businessman wannabe ... look at him now .. distracted and sucks. Just stick to basketball!!
You're hating on Starbury? He made it possible for people in poverty to afford quality shoes. I think it was an amazing idea and it would have worked if he would have offered it to all the major stores instead of only Steve and Barry's. |
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griZZly64
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Post subject: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 05:41 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Jun 28, 2007 Age: 21
Posts: 1305
Location: Camarillo, CA
votes: 13
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Axle wrote:
I don't know if Kobe was wrong on the things you are talking about and why you got booted out, but I personally think that if Kobe wouldn't of stood up to management the Lakers probably would never have gone after Pau Gasol. When you are the leader of a group of people and you see that the team is not improving, you have to make challenges to management. If they are not going to try and improve a situation, then I feel Kobe felt he was wasting his time and energy with a corportion that would not make a move. By doing what he done, knowing that he had a veto power in his contract it gave him the power to make such a move. It opened some eyes in the front office. I call it a genious move and gustsy. I know that a lot of Laker fans didn't understand his move and were unhappy with him challenging management, but that is what it takes sometimes to get the wheels moving.
They went after Pau Gasol because Andrew got injured and the FO didn't want to see all that success flushed down the toilet. |
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Apogeal1
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 05:44 PM PST
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Big-Time Laker Fan
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 507
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
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Axle, I think you're right about Kobe spouting off about the team. It wasn't when Gasol came aboard that the Lakers first improved. Nearly everyone across the board came back a better player, and all attributed it to very hard work over the summer. Even Kwame was better (you just don't grow hands no matter how hard you work, I guess.) Trading Cook for Ariza was great, Pau for Kwame was freaking brilliant!
Whatever else you can say, the controversy seemed to spark the work ethic in the entire team. People like me who like Kobe, give him the benefit of the doubt, especially in hindsight. Try shouldering the burden for several years of being blamed for single handedly blowing up a franchise after your star center has a conniption and demands to be paid the money, or traded! Again, throwing Shaq under the bus didn’t help matters, as no one came forward on his behalf to shed light on the matter, not PJ or even his friend Fish until he rejoined the Lakers.
SPQR, one difference is that Kobe joined an already successful team. Bynum joined with not a really premier player at his position in front of him. The expectations were different. Another is that Kobe didn't want Bynum traded because of some personal issue between them. Bynum was a player full of potential, yet as many people noted e.g., Kareem and Kurt Rambis, had a pretty dismal work ethic, which might have been expected, or explained by the fact of his being a very young player. However, that was never Kobe’s problem. He worked his a$$ off from day one. |
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Axle
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 05:54 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 1708
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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| Aydo! I think you are posting to the wrong fellow. I think you wanted to post to SPQR. I never said that Kobe was second to Magic. |
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Axle
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Total eclipse of the Suns:Staudimire in denial
Posted: Apr 30, 2008 - 06:17 PM PST
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Die-Hard Laker Fan
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 1708
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