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    d_wrath04Offline
    Post subject: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 02:33 AM PST
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    im kinda worried about our team..... for the last 2games and the past 2, the starters are been playin a lot and it gets me worrid cause its not even in the middle of the season and the our 1st five is averaging 43+mins a game... we cant really build up some lead and even tho we do our second unit lose those advantage, dont get me wrong one this one fish and kobe are getting old,.. and im wondering if they can still keep up playing like that?? i mean 43-45mins a game???? specially kobe he filled up for the lack of our bench and been the one who's really keeping the lakers in the game... our bench should step up soon... cause the season just starts and our starter are really worn out... and now bynum sprained his elbow.... just great!!!....

    i hope gasol return soon and bynum's injury is not serious... and lets hope that our bench wake up from the "LA LA LAND"


    c'mon lakers!!
    lets show what we made of!!!
    dnt let any team out shine us!!!!

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    IhateCELTIC4LifeOffline
    Post subject: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 02:54 AM PST
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    Well I think the Reason our bench Sucks right now is because of Gasol he usual make that Bench better and because Odom is having to start for us right now if gasol was in I think we would be 5-0 and not 4-1 right now plus now if Bynum is out that wont hurt us as much cause I think this team is used to playing with out Bynum so we will see what happens

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    IhatetheCelticsOffline
    Post subject: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 02:54 AM PST
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    they'll be better off with Gasol in the starting lineup. A 7 footer who passes well out of the post. That was a huge part of their offense last season. I mean bynum is showing improvement, but come on, he is not a 2nd option on the team. And the bench isn't going to step up until Pau comes back. Why is that so hard to believe for people? The only person worthwhile on that bench is shannon. Once Pau comes back, it moves LO back to the 6th man role. Which is what gives them versatility. A 6'11" point guard coming off the bench.
     
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    lakerblokeOffline
    Post subject: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 07:45 AM PST
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    IhatetheCeltics wrote:
    they'll be better off with Gasol in the starting lineup. A 7 footer who passes well out of the post. That was a huge part of their offense last season. I mean bynum is showing improvement, but come on, he is not a 2nd option on the team. And the bench isn't going to step up until Pau comes back. Why is that so hard to believe for people? The only person worthwhile on that bench is shannon. Once Pau comes back, it moves LO back to the 6th man role. Which is what gives them versatility. A 6'11" point guard coming off the bench.


    That depends on which Lamar shows up. Although his numbers didn't look too bad last night, he did miss his first 7 or 8 shots. A few bad Lamar performances are due any time soon.

    Onto some other worries about this team, and please, do not use the "we're missing Gasol" excuse - how the hell did we get outrebounded by a bunch of midgets???? The Rockets are missing their 1st and 2nd option and they, for the most part of the night, outplayed us. We still seem to have the same defensive inadequecies as we did last year, our bench is just pitiful right now and it looks like Bynum just cannot seem to stay completely injury free.

    No excuse for the Dallas loss, but I'm hoping that the Lakers, much like last year are just playing down to their opponents. Oklahoma and an undermanned and undersized Rockets would appear to be easy prey for us, so with a team of more significance, I'm hoping they will make it a "better" win.

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    NJsBiggestLakerfanaticOffline
    Post subject: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 08:35 AM PST
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    lakerbloke wrote:
    IhatetheCeltics wrote:
    they'll be better off with Gasol in the starting lineup. A 7 footer who passes well out of the post. That was a huge part of their offense last season. I mean bynum is showing improvement, but come on, he is not a 2nd option on the team. And the bench isn't going to step up until Pau comes back. Why is that so hard to believe for people? The only person worthwhile on that bench is shannon. Once Pau comes back, it moves LO back to the 6th man role. Which is what gives them versatility. A 6'11" point guard coming off the bench.


    That depends on which Lamar shows up. Although his numbers didn't look too bad last night, he did miss his first 7 or 8 shots. A few bad Lamar performances are due any time soon.

    Onto some other worries about this team, and please, do not use the "we're missing Gasol" excuse - how the hell did we get outrebounded by a bunch of midgets???? The Rockets are missing their 1st and 2nd option and they, for the most part of the night, outplayed us. We still seem to have the same defensive inadequecies as we did last year, our bench is just pitiful right now and it looks like Bynum just cannot seem to stay completely injury free.

    No excuse for the Dallas loss, but I'm hoping that the Lakers, much like last year are just playing down to their opponents. Oklahoma and an undermanned and undersized Rockets would appear to be easy prey for us, so with a team of more significance, I'm hoping they will make it a "better" win.


    lakerbloke,

    Your right. I admit I have been saying "When Pau gets back...". We should not have had to battle this hard against the Rockets. Imagine if yao was playing???? Kobe as usual has the hunger from the tip off, the other guys are pissing me off with this sluggish play. C'MON GUYS YOU ARE THE DEFENDING CHAMPIONS WHERE IS YOUR PRIDE???????? Kobe cannot do it all AND if he does he might get injured and if that happens hand the Celtics the ring.

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    SPQROffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 09:22 AM PST
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    Quote:

    Your right. I admit I have been saying "When Pau gets back...". We should not have had to battle this hard against the Rockets.


    Didn't a crippled, undersized Rockets take us to seven games last year in the playoffs, with Pau playing and without Ming?

    Quote:

    I mean bynum is showing improvement, but come on, he is not a 2nd option on the team.


    No, actually, while Pau is out, Drew should be the second option. His shooting percentage dictates this. Once again, egos had a large part in making this game tougher than it should have been. Drew killed the Rockets on the boards and he could have killed them scoring too, if the other players had sublimated their egos and fed the post. But you can see this won't happen and consequently things will be harder than they should, as it was last night. That is the consequence of playing 'stupid ball.' This was not the sole reason things were hard for us, but it was a big one. Until Kobe and company start to utilize Drew more and understand he can score at a very efficient percentage, then 'stupid ball' will continue to prevail and wins will come harder than they should.

    Drew should be fed early and often down low. So should Pau. This is really a low post team that won't accept that fact as it should and adjust accordingly. That is both Phil's fault and the players fault.

    Also, people think when Pau gets back he will pick up where he left off. He won't. He will be back at the forward spot and won't be putting up his old pivot numbers of last year or having that kind of effect that he did...unless he gets considerable time playing center with the second team.

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    cuckoorollerOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 09:54 AM PST
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    Randy,
    It should be recalled that the Lakers had the Rockets number last year, when Yao Ming was active. They had the right sort of defense for him, basically smothered him all year with timely quick guard rotations and our bigs fronting him and pushing him away from the basket and out of his comfort zone. So, when he went down, I expected the Lakers to have some trouble adapting. They did have trouble, more than we certainly would have expected, but, they were much more competitive against us without Yao Ming, than with! We simply had excogitated our Houston defense presuming Yao Ming would be of the game, and when he was no longer available, we had trouble adapting to the new situation in timely fashion.

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    SPQROffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 11:32 AM PST
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    Yes, Steve,

    Funny how that can work. Almost like addition by subtraction-of their best player no less!! At least when it comes to playing against us. Go figure.

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    makemanOffline
    Post subject:   PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 11:35 AM PST
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    Very Happy Hello everyone i'm a laker fan since phil jackson got to the lakers and now i'm a bigger fan because over the year phil has made kobe look like mike and the lakers like the bulls.

    I'm happy to see phil win his tenth ring and kobe his fourth and when we got artest i just knew we would be good money this year and next. but after seeing the games so far since presession i dont like what i see. we are not playing like we did last session(hungry). i know it's still early in the session but still we should be playing better.

    I think in order for us to fix this problem while Gasol is out we need to get ron artest more plays so that he can feel as comfortable as possible on the floor. so kobe must let artest finish off some fast breaks or even switch positions on the floor while playing and let artest be the shooter(sometimes). i think this would help artest confidence and he'll play better.
    kobe is great but we need his assists to go up and his rebounding. with this team he should be able to get a triple double everygame. drew is good but young he's only focus on scoring why? i don't know. but if can get him to be more of a force in the paint then i think guards would think twice about driving to the hole.
    our bench is trash and still soft and immature. they aren't playing good at all.
     
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    tripleocho24Offline
    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 12:01 PM PST
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    SPQR wrote:
    Quote:

    Your right. I admit I have been saying "When Pau gets back...". We should not have had to battle this hard against the Rockets.


    Didn't a crippled, undersized Rockets take us to seven games last year in the playoffs, with Pau playing and without Ming?

    Quote:

    I mean bynum is showing improvement, but come on, he is not a 2nd option on the team.


    No, actually, while Pau is out, Drew should be the second option. His shooting percentage dictates this. Once again, egos had a large part in making this game tougher than it should have been. Drew killed the Rockets on the boards and he could have killed them scoring too, if the other players had sublimated their egos and fed the post. But you can see this won't happen and consequently things will be harder than they should, as it was last night. That is the consequence of playing 'stupid ball.' This was not the sole reason things were hard for us, but it was a big one. Until Kobe and company start to utilize Drew more and understand he can score at a very efficient percentage, then 'stupid ball' will continue to prevail and wins will come harder than they should.

    Drew should be fed early and often down low. So should Pau. This is really a low post team that won't accept that fact as it should and adjust accordingly. That is both Phil's fault and the players fault.


    Great Point!

    Nothing much more to add to that except Drew isnt respected enough by the older veterans to get the ball as much as needed. I saw many times in the fourth quarter He had perfect position and the others began to jack up some stupid shots instead of feeding him down low. Look at what the Cavs did with Shaq, if you got a big pivot who is hard to stop give him the dang rock! Drew coulda scored 50 last night.
     
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    SPQROffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 12:44 PM PST
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    Tripleocho24,

    Thank you for the kind words.

    Yep, me too. It happens a lot. In the other game before this, I saw Drew race down the floor, seal his guy out, establish perfect position and Fish looked right at him....then jacked up a long jumper that missed...again.

    This team, including Kobe, is just too selfish and want to get theirs and screw playing smart ball. They are showing they are not going to give up theirs to some kid, not matter how much it may hurt the team.

    Triple, if you remember, the same thing happened with Pau last year. In fact he got so tired of it, he even started to complain after a while. To bad these vets egos are so big that they can't do what is right.

    I guess Kobe and the gang just have not had enough individual glory yet.

    Kobe is an all time great player, but hes selfish. But at least he does have his greatness as an excuse. What is Fishers, Odom's, Farmar's and the others excuse? Pathetic. And if they are not really selfish, then yeah, I guess they are just that stupid.

    I also think Kobe is gonna have a huge problem down the road playing with Drew if the kid does turn out to be a franchise player. But that is a thread and a story for another day.

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    BaadMasterOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 01:36 PM PST
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    In the last minutes and overtime of the Houston game, I saw Bynum open time after time -- yet only one pass was thrown to him.

    I see this as a troublng omen. With the game on the line, it has been "Kobe time" for the past decade. Yet, from a statistical point of view, it is starting to look like crunch time should be "Bynum time." He usually shoots close to 60% and does not have to split two defenders to put up a shot. I see Kobe resisting this as an exceptable strategy for "his team." I cannot envision him accepting any version of Shaq Part 2. This is an area of conflict I can see becoming an issue.

    I guess this is a job for SuperZenMan. Good thing we have Phil to solve this problem should it arise.
     
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    SPQROffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 01:44 PM PST
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    BaadMaster,

    I agree with what you say. This 'problem' actually entered my mind the day LA drafted Bynum. I have continued to think about it over the years based on two things: Kobe's infamous remark, "I am sick of playing second fiddle to Shaq." and an even more ominous interview with him after we won the title last year. During that interview the guy asked Kobe if he could ever envision himself down the road playing second fiddle to another player. Kobe's response was (I am paraphrasing here) "No, I will never be second fiddle on a team again."

    So if the day comes when Phil or some other coach calls a meeting and says, "I want the offense to now run through Drew." well, its not hard to imagine Kobe's response.

    I suspect it will go something like this at a press conferance: "I have done all I can here in Los Angeles. I think now I want to seek greater challenges with another team before my career is done. Because of this I am opting out of my contract."

    I hope to god that press conferance never happens, but honestly, in my gut I think it will if Kobe ever has to play second fiddle to Drew if he becomes the predominant player on this team.

    As for Phil solving that problem if it does arise. I wouldn't count on it. Hell, he can't even get the ancillary players to pass it to Drew now in a game like last nights.

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    gemfowOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 01:58 PM PST
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    How can Phil solve a problem that I think he is a part of? Phil did this exact same thing for Mike and he does it for Kobe. In the game against Oklahoma I became irritated with the constant Kobe feeding because in my opinion I felt Artest needed some shots, the guy was smoking hot and the Laker team pretty much cooled him off.

    However if we look at other teams, they do the exact same thing. Wade gets the ball, Lebron gets the ball, Gilbert gets the ball, these guys all gte the ball force fed to them in crunch time.

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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 02:02 PM PST
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    BaadMaster & SPQR,

    Soo true! This is a test of Kobe's leadership ability, if a young guy comes in and begins to display offensive dominance give him the dang rock man and save your energy! If it's credit he's looking, He can get it easily for getting Bynum easy baskets and allowing Him to be the focal point. On the OKC game thread, I noted that defenders are now getting in to Bryant's dribble very easily. I dont know if He's playing at half speed, or He tired or it's age, but He is not the Kobe of 08 and 07 who easily gets his shot off effortlessly. I've watched Him from opening night and guys are catching up to him easily blocking his shots, getting a good position on Him on the ball and being in his face constantly when He's about to shoot. Hopefully, He reduces His shot taking to about 15 per game, take the ball out of Odom's hands and start facilitating the offense again and pick his spots.
     
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    SPQROffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 02:09 PM PST
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    Oh yeah Gem,

    They do. And I really don't have a problem with Kobe getting it at crunch time. He is just that great and he has earned it.

    I am more troubled with the other players ignoring Drew THROUGH OUT a whole game. Like TripleOcho said, Drew could have gone for 50 last night if they had done the right thing.They do the same with Pau. It is ridiculous, selfish and stupid on their part. It hurts the team immesurably and that is why Pau spoke up last year. This is now a low post team, just like when we had Shaq. Those guys better wake the hell up and decide they want to win, not get theirs.

    Gem,

    I also think Phil is part of the problem. He is giving them too much leeway. There comes a time when you say, "Hey, start getting that ball into Drew (or Pau) or your playing time is gonna disappear."

    Phil's laisissez fair attitude about coaching is double edged sword in my book. Sometimes it is good and it works. In other situations a more dictatorial approach is necessary. In this case it is the latter which would do more good. They players don't need to find out this a low post team by themselves. Tell them yourself, Phil and save everyone a lot of time and trouble

    As for Kobe and Drew playing together down the road if Drew becomes our best player, I will worry about it when the time comes. It is still a while off...if ever.

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    AxleOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 02:12 PM PST
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    Don't panic or worry about the Lakers. They are a team that does not like to imbarrass other teams with blowouts like the Celtics. The Celtics trive on beating a dead horse to the ground. I don't know if you have noticed that when the Lakers get up by twenty or thirty points, Phil will pull his starters out and will let the scrubs take over, even though the big score that was handed to them will shrink down to where it makes us all nervous, but yet the Lakers end up winning. The Lakers will be just fine.
     
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    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 02:19 PM PST
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    gemfow wrote:
    How can Phil solve a problem that I think he is a part of? Phil did this exact same thing for Mike and he does it for Kobe. In the game against Oklahoma I became irritated with the constant Kobe feeding because in my opinion I felt Artest needed some shots, the guy was smoking hot and the Laker team pretty much cooled him off.

    However if we look at other teams, they do the exact same thing. Wade gets the ball, Lebron gets the ball, Gilbert gets the ball, these guys all gte the ball force fed to them in crunch time.


    Well, I agree that the Lakers or any team should not be one dimensional. I used to like when Kobe would get the ball, drive and kick it out to the wide open shooter. I don't see that anymore and Kobe tries to force a shot with two defenders on him. I agree with the post, but then again Phil has ten rings in his safe deposit box and who am I to question his ability to coach. Rolling Eyes


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    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 02:22 PM PST
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    SPQR wrote:
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    Your right. I admit I have been saying "When Pau gets back...". We should not have had to battle this hard against the Rockets.


    Didn't a crippled, undersized Rockets take us to seven games last year in the playoffs, with Pau playing and without Ming?

    Quote:

    I mean bynum is showing improvement, but come on, he is not a 2nd option on the team.


    No, actually, while Pau is out, Drew should be the second option. His shooting percentage dictates this. Once again, egos had a large part in making this game tougher than it should have been. Drew killed the Rockets on the boards and he could have killed them scoring too, if the other players had sublimated their egos and fed the post. But you can see this won't happen and consequently things will be harder than they should, as it was last night. That is the consequence of playing 'stupid ball.' This was not the sole reason things were hard for us, but it was a big one. Until Kobe and company start to utilize Drew more and understand he can score at a very efficient percentage, then 'stupid ball' will continue to prevail and wins will come harder than they should.

    Drew should be fed early and often down low. So should Pau. This is really a low post team that won't accept that fact as it should and adjust accordingly. That is both Phil's fault and the players fault.

    Also, people think when Pau gets back he will pick up where he left off. He won't. He will be back at the forward spot and won't be putting up his old pivot numbers of last year or having that kind of effect that he did...unless he gets considerable time playing center with the second team.


    You could not be more right with your comments. I was screaming at the TV to go into the post. I probably do it every game, but last night especially. Chuck Hayes is like 6"6'. They should have run him right out of the game last night giving it to Bynum. At worse they would have had to double team and then other things open up.

    I think Pau will help in the fact the rotation will be different and Pau or Bynum will always be on the floor which will help the second unit. I love Mbenga, but he cannot do the things Pau and Drew can do. Also, having Pau back will have Odom more with the 2nd unit. Right now the second unit look terrible when Odom or Pau or Byno are not with them.
     
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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 02:25 PM PST
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    Axle,

    You don't have to have ten rings to understand something. Phil, and every human being, has
    made mistakes. Phil is not infallible. We have covered that ground before on here and its a invalid excuse.

    Sometimes a coach just has to...coach! You know, say, "hey guys, I want you to do this because it is smart basketball."

    I am also not worried about this team yet. When Drew was going strong the last couple years, they did start to feed him. I expect them to do the same with him and Pau this year. If they don't, then I will start to worry, about them and our coach. Just pisses me the f*ck off when you have to watch them do this the hard way right now when they should know better. It shouldn't be this way. And the only people you can blame are Phil and the players themselves. There is no one else culpable.

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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 03:19 PM PST
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    Bynum is averaging 20 points and 10 boards through 5 games. That could easily be 25 points per game or more if the team would simply feed him the ball and let him go to work against the mismatches, much like they did in mid January earlier this year. The Center position is so weak in the league, particularly the western conference, that Drew should have a field day scoring against opposing centers on most nights. It's simple logic, and while I'm happy to see Drew averaging 20 points per game, anyone who watches the Lakers can clearly see that he could and would be averaging even more points if his teammates would simply give him the d@mn rock.

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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 03:40 PM PST
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    Soo true! This is a test of Kobe's leadership ability, if a young guy comes in and begins to display offensive dominance give him the dang rock man and save your energy! If it's credit he's looking, He can get it easily for getting Bynum easy baskets and allowing Him to be the focal point.


    Tripleocho24,

    You said it all right there. Magic made the first two thirds of his career by playing smart ball and getting it to a better scorer than himself-Kareem. Kobe would be wise to learn that you don't have to always be the top scoring option to still dominate a game. But I wonder if he can ever have that mindset. Being Magic Johnson or John Stockton aint such a bad way to be. I hope he can understand that.

    If Drew does become the best player on this team, how Kobe reacts-smartly or selfishly-will be the final denoument of him as a Laker-and as a player. It will be the last impression we Laker fans have of him. And that impression will all be up to him.

    Quote:

    You could not be more right with your comments. I was screaming at the TV to go into the post. I probably do it every game, but last night especially. Chuck Hayes is like 6"6'. They should have run him right out of the game last night giving it to Bynum. At worse they would have had to double team and then other things open up.


    Lakertothegrave,

    Thanks for the kind word and support on this. If one of us stopped screaming, we probably could have heard the other, even from afar, lol. I think I frightened my TV!

    It is frustrating to watch this team play 'dumball'. It is perhaps more frustrating to watch our hall of fame coach with his ten rings let it keep happening night after night. What the players did concerning Drew last night, and what Phil let them do, was criminal. No other way to put it.

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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 03:42 PM PST
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    Quote:

    he Center position is so weak in the league, particularly the western conference, that Drew should have a field day scoring against opposing centers on most nights. It's simple logic, and while I'm happy to see Drew averaging 20 points per game, anyone who watches the Lakers can clearly see that he could and would be averaging even more points if his teammates would simply give him the d@mn rock.


    Lakeshowsd,

    Center play is indeed abysmal in the league. Now that you mention it. Maybe the worst I have ever seen. It is a great time to be Drew, or Pau....unless they don't use them...

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    SAMMi24
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 03:48 PM PST
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    personally, i'd like to see Kobe feeding Bynum down low. He can up his assists big time by giving Bynum the rock and can still score around 25 points. I think the key to this season for the Lakers, because of how much talent this team has, is equality and balance. I want to see Bynum and Kobe going for 25 ish points, followed by Gasol, LO, and Ron Ron. I'd like to see Kobe with a higher number of assists.

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    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 04:06 PM PST
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    SAMMi24 wrote:
    personally, i'd like to see Kobe feeding Bynum down low. He can up his assists big time by giving Bynum the rock and can still score around 25 points. I think the key to this season for the Lakers, because of how much talent this team has, is equality and balance. I want to see Bynum and Kobe going for 25 ish points, followed by Gasol, LO, and Ron Ron. I'd like to see Kobe with a higher number of assists.


    SPQR and SAMMi24,

    I agree on all accounts. Bynum and Pau should dominate the paint in a league that has so few quality centers, and I have confidence that as the season progresses, they will.

    I also agree that Kobe could go a long way toward padding his assist numbers if he finds Bynum more often for easy buckets, much like when Kobe went on that assist terror last season and was dubbed "Kobe-Nash" by a teammate. We've seen a glimmer of this from Kobe in 1 or 2 games so far this year but it hasn't really been consistent enough. Based on these last 2 games, Kobe seems to have decided that with no Gasol and with everyone not named Andrew Bynum shooting poorly, he has to shoulder the bulk of the scoring load. Based on his recent performances, I have to assume that's how Kobe feels. Thankfully Ron has increased his own offensive output over the last 2 games, or else the Lakers could very easily be 2-3 instead of 4-1.

    While it's great for Kobe to score 30 or 40 points every now and again, I just wish he would remember that he has an extremely talented young offensive big man, who he can dump it to down low for easier, higher percentage shots. Maybe it's ego or trust that's part of the reason Kobe and some of the other guys aren't fully utilizing Bynum as an offensive weapon. Maybe it's a problem with Phil and the coaching staff. I'm not really sure at this point, but what I do know is that Kobe is working much too hard for his points; harder than is necessary when he has other talented scorers for teammates.

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    AxleOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 04:06 PM PST
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    Yes, we would all like to see Bynum get the ball more, but sometimes it is best not to feed him the ball so much because even though the Rockets were shorter then Bynum, they were still doubling Bynum down low and would not let him get into his confort zone. He turned the ball over several times because of the pressure they were applying on him in the post. Bynum is tall and lanky, but players like Chuck Hayes are short in comparison, but have a lot of strengh or low center of gravity. When you have the most dominant player in the world, you have to mix it up and break up that defense. So Kobe spreads the floor. This game would not have been as close as it was if Lamar would have gotten the lead of his a** early. The way he was playing it seemed like he had just gotten off the bed with Chloe. LOL! He looked weak and was doing the Hudini again. It has to be a team effort, not a one dimensional team. If we start feeding the ball to Bynum all the time, teams will know how to defend that move. You have to mix it up.
     
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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 04:12 PM PST
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    Axle,

    I agree he can't shoot all the time. When he or Pau have attracted a double, that would be playing 'stupid ball' as well. I am talking about TOUCHES. The same thing Pau complained about last year. Passing the ball into Drew, or Pau, not only gives them the chance to score if it is viable, but can actually open things up for others as well by forcing the defense in. You have to double Drew or Pau once they get good position and the ball comes their way-or you are giving up a duece.

    Going to Drew or Pau is not the end result, just the beginning move in the possession of running a smart offense set.

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    Kobe+talent=4moreringsOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 11:05 PM PST
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    i feel part of the problem is bynum is selfish and when he gets the ball he is a black hole, i think the other players would be more inclined to pass if he would help set them up, but like we have seen its them setting him up 90% of the time and he almost always shoots, this will probably come with age, but when your 22 you need to make the vets happy and in return they will make him happy ...overall i think bynum is playing fantastically he is showing an ability to play big minutes, rebound and score he just needs to be a more willing passer and i will promise he will do better in those situations in the future because they will feel that they have a chance to get the ball back, but we really need pau back we are definitely a much better team with him, bynum may have more raw talent but pau does the intangibles that makes us play at a much higher level
     
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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 02:27 AM PST
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    Kobe+talent=4morerings:

    Your criticism is justified in part, but I don't think it is fair to single Bynum out. Everyone on the Lakers seems intent on going it alone, and I can understand why---on the rare occasions that the guards get him the ball---Bynum feels compelled to try to prove himself and score. .

    Kobe needs to lead by example. He may feel compelled to try to do it all because of his competitive nature, but he isn't playing smart. If Kobe continues to consume the Lakers' possessions at the current rate, he may average >30 points per game but the Lakers are going to lose games that they should win if they would move the ball around and through Bynum/Gasol.

    Bynum draws a lot of criticism and many feel he hasn't lived up to his potential. I see it a bit differently: in my opinion, Bynum could/would be posting phenomenal numbers if he were playing with a team oriented and more skilled at distributing the ball. I sometimes wonder what he would be doing if he was playing with Nash or Chris Paul.

    I also believe that the Lakers fate this year and in coming years depends largely on Bynum. The competition has upgraded, and I don't think the Lakers will repeat this year if Bynum isn't a factor on both ends of the floor. Although the season is young, I share SPQR's concerns and hope that the team---and, yes, Kobe---work the offense through Bynum and Gasol.

    Finally: Bynum had more assists (5) against Houston than any of our guards with fewer touches.
     
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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 09:40 AM PST
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    Quote:

    Bynum draws a lot of criticism and many feel he hasn't lived up to his potential. I see it a bit differently: in my opinion, Bynum could/would be posting phenomenal numbers if he were playing with a team oriented and more skilled at distributing the ball. I sometimes wonder what he would be doing if he was playing with Nash or Chris Paul.



    14ALL41,

    People who are very critical of Drew just don't know what they are talking about to be perfectly blunt about it. This is the youngest guy ever drafted. He had marginal HS experience and no college. In two of his four years as a pro he suffered debilitating injuries. His progress has been nothing short of amazing. I have to laugh at all the stuff thrown at him by people like Urkle and others. They think he should be playing like a veteran. I remember a 22 year old Kobe Bryant stinking up the joint in many, many games and he did not miss two years with injuries.

    Urkle is always on here about Drews rebounding whenever he is short in that department. Now he is nowhere to be found. But we all know he will be back as soon as Drew has a bad board game. He just isn't around when Drew keeps having good rebounding games. It is really funny.

    Right, Urkle?

    The fact is that with Drew and Pau, our talent lies in the post with the exception of Kobe. But the fact that both Drew and Pau shoot at a higher percentage than Kobe dicates that Kobe should shoot less and let these guys shoot more. It is simple math. That was why Phil wanted Shaq to get the lions share of shots on the 3peat team. Then when you talk about guys like Fish, Farmar and the others...christ. They should be ashamed every single play they don't run the offense through the big guys. But apparently they are very shameless players.

    The other thing these guys, including Kobe, don't seem to realize is that if you run touches with Drew and Pau, it will open things up and make it easier for them to get good looks. Once in good position, you HAVE TO double Pau or Drew. This will make things so much easier for Kobe, Fish, Artest and the crew. Don't these guys know this by now? How long have them been playing ball. I will say this in no uncertain terms. This is a selfish team and that tone is set by Kobe and followed by the others. And this is to the detriment of whole offense structure of the team. And it's showing.

    The Lakers are going to be good no matter how they run the offense. The difference though is that they would be WAY better if they woke up, played smart and started playing like the low post talented team they really are. And the fact is, with Boston playing like they are, this team may well have to be WAY better than they are right now to win it this year. The team, including Kobe, needs a wake up call on the smart and effective way to do this with the preponderance of talent they have down low. Coach Jackson also needs a wake up call and start to make his players do what is right for this teams effectiveness, egos be damned.

    This team is playing stupid. And it reflects right back on their best player-Kobe, and their hall of fame ten ring coach-Phil Jackson.

    And no, I don't like saying these things about Kobe, Phil and the team I love, respect and pull for with ever fiber of my being. But I always call it the way I see it. And right now, it's what I am seeing so I am saying it.

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    gemfowOffline
    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 09:57 AM PST
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    14ALL41 qand SPQR: Great points. I get really irritated with the give the ball to Kobe in the 4th crap. If Kobe is hot then hell yeah give the ball to him. Kobe with all his greatness does find a way to make shots during those times but it can be so much easier for the team if we fed the post to Drew and Pau. Our team's strength is our frontline. Our point guards should only shoot the ball after receiving a pass from a double team, we shouldn't set screens to free them up in my opinion, they don't know how to play pick and roll basketball. We will never get an opposing team's bigs in foul trouble unless Pau and Drew receive the ball. Kobe's post game does look really good this year, I like that he has lowered his three point attempts, but lets have Drew and Pau carry us, especially if they have the mismatch.

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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 10:08 AM PST
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    Gem,

    I agree with all you say. When Kobe is hot, I have no problem with him shooting, he is just that great and can carry a team through anything. But this team needs to develope a mindset that the smart way to play is put pressure on other teams with its bigs. No other team in the league has two talented players with the size and skill of Drew and Pau. It's ridiculous how big an edge we have on EVERY OTHER nba team down low. Yet it is almost an after thought with the squad. Honestly, I don't know what the hell Phil is thinking. Can you imagine Pat Riley, Pops or Jerry Sloane having those two guys and just allow his players to do what they are doing now? Not driving home that huge advanage night after night? Not making his team play the obvious and smart way? So far, this is not one of Phil's better moments. In the end this falls on his broad shoulders. He is the coach here, right? Or is Kobe?

    I think one of the problems we are starting to see it this: Kobe is the undisputed leader of the team. It is really up to him to start telling the other players to run the offense through the low post. But of course, since he wants the ball, and he wants to take a lot of shots, it is kind of hard for him to tell the others, "Hey, start running the offense more through the low post." It looks like it might be a problem. Then when you think of Pau coming back, and it will be smart to get him touches too and....well...you can see where this thing may get very sticky.

    It is going to be very interesting to see how this all shakes down over the long haul.

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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 10:33 AM PST
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    SPQR: Here is the only thing I can say in Kobe's defense. He is conditioned that way. Even when Shaq was the man here in LA, the ball was in Kobe's hand's at the end of games, not to thed degree it is now, but it was in his hands. Phil has allowed Kobe the freedom of this type of play late in games for almost his whole career, it won't change. Phil allowed the same thing with Mike, so I just don't see things changing. The reason it won't change is because of Kobe's confidence, he feels that every shot he takes will go in, or if it doesn't the next one will. I'm just thankful that the shots he is taking are of the mid range variety and not the three pointers he has taken in the past. I just dislike seeing mismatches not being taken advantage of, I have seen Artest asking for the ball, which is good in my opinion. We need soeone else on this team who wants the ball and feels he will take advantage of his man. I think Kobe respects players like that, players who want the ball and who will deliver.

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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 10:41 AM PST
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    Well before we jump on Kobe too much you got to remember that Pau has not played a single game in the regular season yet. So all this about giving the ball to Pau and Bynum might be jumping the gun. Right now Kobe is doing what is necessary to just get by and win the game until Pau gets back from his injury. Bynum has improved, but in my opinion he is still soft when posting. When a 6'6" Hayes pushes him around and does not let him get in his confort zone, that tells me he needs to work more on straigthening his lower body. He also has to learn to keep the ball up high so that they won't knock it off his hands and cause a turn over. Before we criticize Kobe too much, lets wait until Pau gets back and then we will see if Kobe is greedy with the ball or if he then starts taking less shots and running the offense.
     
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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 10:44 AM PST
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    Axle,

    Oh yes, I agree with you. Before we really go anywhere with this team, how it is playing and who is and is not getting touches, lets wait and see what happens when Pau returns. I am totally in accordance with you on that. At that point we will be better to ascertain what is going on and what needs to be done, if anything.

    I was simply venting my displeasure on how the team is functioning right now concerning Drew. With Pau back, maybe the team will start to play smarter ball and begin to go down on the blocks more, with both Pau and Drew. I hope so anyway.

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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 01:58 PM PST
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    Well then again the problem is the defense this squad plays, I see so many heads being turned with the ball in play and dont talk about Mr KB24 trying to play passing lanes, Every opponent He defended this season shot a good percentage on him except for Ariza. Kobe should leave that playing passing lanes crap and stay in front of his man on D so the other team can force a shot. Those open shots is what keep fueling their come backs.

    The bench is a concern, I think Phil needs to replace Odom with Powell in the starting 5, It leaves the Lakers with Two Main Ball Handlers (Kobe, Artest) so maybe there will be a better flow on Offense, Powell doesnt need much touches and He's a better pick and pop player than Odom in my estimation. Odom's return will fuel the pace into a fast but controlled environment, plus He's an option down low in the half court. He, along with Benga makes an athletic front court on D. Hopefully Phil sees this.
     
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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 02:16 PM PST
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    Here's another thought and worry: No Bynum AND No Gasol tonight.

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    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 02:22 PM PST
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    lakeshowsd wrote:
    Here's another thought and worry: No Bynum AND No Gasol tonight.



    I agree that this will be a very tough game to win. For some reason or other a lot of Laker fans under estimate the Grizz, but they are not that bad of a team. They have a lot of young talent that could be dangerous and will give the short handed Lakers a lot of problem. Kobe and Artest are going to be the main scorers tonight. Lamar and Mbenga will have their hands full with Marc Gasol. Hope the Lakers can pull it off.
     
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    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 02:31 PM PST
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    SPQR wrote:
    Quote:

    Your right. I admit I have been saying "When Pau gets back...". We should not have had to battle this hard against the Rockets.


    Didn't a crippled, undersized Rockets take us to seven games last year in the playoffs, with Pau playing and without Ming?

    Quote:

    I mean bynum is showing improvement, but come on, he is not a 2nd option on the team.


    No, actually, while Pau is out, Drew should be the second option. His shooting percentage dictates this. Once again, egos had a large part in making this game tougher than it should have been. Drew killed the Rockets on the boards and he could have killed them scoring too, if the other players had sublimated their egos and fed the post. But you can see this won't happen and consequently things will be harder than they should, as it was last night. That is the consequence of playing 'stupid ball.' This was not the sole reason things were hard for us, but it was a big one. Until Kobe and company start to utilize Drew more and understand he can score at a very efficient percentage, then 'stupid ball' will continue to prevail and wins will come harder than they should.

    Drew should be fed early and often down low. So should Pau. This is really a low post team that won't accept that fact as it should and adjust accordingly. That is both Phil's fault and the players fault.

    Also, people think when Pau gets back he will pick up where he left off. He won't. He will be back at the forward spot and won't be putting up his old pivot numbers of last year or having that kind of effect that he did...unless he gets considerable time playing center with the second team.


    Each time the Lakers lose or they get behind in a game, Kobe steps up his shooting and seeks to take over. Though on occasion this is positive given his amazing shooting against against Houston as an example, the strategy to get the ball inside comes to a halt. The Lakers are unbeatable when the feed the ball to Drew who scores 60% of the time and passes for outside jumpers when contained. This is WHY The triangle needs a point guard in my opinion. Kobe takes over with skill and not with court leadership.

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    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 02:37 PM PST
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    gemfow wrote:
    SPQR: Here is the only thing I can say in Kobe's defense. He is conditioned that way. Even when Shaq was the man here in LA, the ball was in Kobe's hand's at the end of games, not to thed degree it is now, but it was in his hands. Phil has allowed Kobe the freedom of this type of play late in games for almost his whole career, it won't change. Phil allowed the same thing with Mike, so I just don't see things changing. The reason it won't change is because of Kobe's confidence, he feels that every shot he takes will go in, or if it doesn't the next one will. I'm just thankful that the shots he is taking are of the mid range variety and not the three pointers he has taken in the past. I just dislike seeing mismatches not being taken advantage of, I have seen Artest asking for the ball, which is good in my opinion. We need soeone else on this team who wants the ball and feels he will take advantage of his man. I think Kobe respects players like that, players who want the ball and who will deliver.


    Very well stated. This echoes my post above. I think Drew wants the ball and they are NOT getting it to him enough.

    One proviso though, Drew has not developed the skill to move on offense too well without the ball. This is why his rebounding on occasion is weak. He does not anticipate and merely reacts to missed shots. Kareem taught him footwork with the ball but not footwork without the ball.... He is relying on his height and not his skill. This will come...hopefully soon.

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    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 02:49 PM PST
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    Axle wrote:
    lakeshowsd wrote:
    Here's another thought and worry: No Bynum AND No Gasol tonight.



    I agree that this will be a very tough game to win. For some reason or other a lot of Laker fans under estimate the Grizz, but they are not that bad of a team. They have a lot of young talent that could be dangerous and will give the short handed Lakers a lot of problem. Kobe and Artest are going to be the main scorers tonight. Lamar and Mbenga will have their hands full with Marc Gasol. Hope the Lakers can pull it off.


    Gasol, Mayo, Gay and Iverson...they're better than good. Don't understand how they can start Conley over Iverson. That won't last much longer...

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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 04:10 PM PST
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    Look for Kobe and Artest to really go to work tonight. A big effort by Lamar would help a lot too. Maybe the dire circumstances will get a bench player or two to step up for the occasion. Is it crazy to hope that could happen? Might want to play a very up tempo game. I think we can still win this game.

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    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: my thoughts and worries  PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 - 08:04 PM PST
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    With no Gasol and Bynum I still think this is a winnable game, particularly at home. A Laker team with Ron, Kobe, Odom, and Fisher would likely make the playoffs even without Gasol and Bynum. Heck, they made the playoffs with less than that a few years ago, so I believe they will be competitive tonight. If the bench is going to play decent some time this season, a home game is the most likely scenario. Under the circumstances, the entire team should be extra focused.

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